[vermagnussen]

Hi,

I've read through many of the well informed responses on this board and I've perused the Virginia Landlord-Tenant law but am still a bit unclear on a few legal points and wouldn't mind some legal or general advice from people who've had similar experiences.

I am a single, 30 year old male and I have been living in my current apartment for the past 3 years. I've always been on good terms with my property manager and always on time with the rent. I initially had 2 other roommates when I began living here(no problems) but eventually they moved away and I had been renting alone until 4 months ago. My property manager was showing apartments to a guy in my building and I happened to strike up a conversation with him and told him I was looking for a roommate. He was very courteous and well mannered and to make a long story short sold himself as a good prospective roommate. I explained in no uncertain terms that he would have to sign a lease, HE ALONE was the only tenant besides myself(i.e. no girlfriend, friend etc.. Moving in), there were to be no parties, and that he would be responsible for half of rent and utilities. He agreed wholeheartedly to all the above and after passing the property managers credit check and giving me part of the first months rent I gave him a copy of the apt. keys, got a new, 1 year lease for us to sign and allowed him to move in.

For the initial 2 weeks things went well. He cleaned up, was courteous about using my "common area" things (like my newly purchased HDTV) and was generally a good roommate. Then, despite his claim of working 60 hours a week he couldn't pay the rest of the rent. I sympathised a bit because he was young and was in a transition phase so I fronted all the rent to property manager. He would eventually pay me the money but this was just the start. Then his girlfriend, over a course of a couple weeks, seemed to gradually go from visiting to "staying over" a lot to completely living in the apt. At this point my good will was beginning to erode but he was still behaving pretty well as a roommate and when I asked about his girlfriend now mysteriously having keys to the apt. he said that she was starting college in a few weeks and didn't have anywhere to go until then. I (foolishly) decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and let the issue slide.

As you have probably guessed things have made a steep decline since then. He has yet to pay the rent or utilities on time and has the attitude that rent is "optional" or amounts to whatever he can muster. His girlfriend has become a permanent resident and they fight constantly. The fights mainly consist of her screaching obscenities at the top of her lungs. Recently these fights have spilled out into the street in front of the apt. building. The apt. is in a nice, upscale retail disctrict and they are fighting in the street with her shreiking obscenities in broad daylight with lots of children and tourists about. What started as courtiousness and cleanliness in now disrespect and slovenliness. He treats my expensive equiptment as if it were his own and it takes all my restraint at times not to explode and start beating him senseless. But enough with my ranting and to the crux of the matter.

After being a "nice guy" and putting up with his worsening behavior I confronted him on 9/28 and told him in no uncertain terms that 1. he would now have to pay his rent (due by the 5th of the next month) directly to the property manager and deal with them if he couldn't make the rent. 2. That his girlfriend wasn't on the lease and had to go as it is illegal to have someone residing there who isn't on the lease. I left it at that and figured that he'd either shape up or hopefully would get kicked out by the property manager. Well 10/5 comes and passes (I of course paid my part of the rent) and on 10/6 I get a voicemail from the property manager about past due rent. Turns out that he not only ignored everything I told him on 9/28 but that he never even signed and returned the lease which I had signed and given to him in early August. I called the property manager back and informed her that I'd had enough and that since he never bothered to sign the lease I'd like him out of the apt. She said she understood my frustration and that he would probably be on his way out. She said to have him contact her and she would take care of it. So I left a note on his door with her number and message to contact her. I have been extremely busy with work these past few weeks so I left it at that for a couple days thinking the property manager would take care of it. By 10/12 I hadn't heard anything from the property manager and my roommate had made no indications that he would be vacating any time soon so I dropped by the property managers office. Apparently he caught wind of my trying to get him removed and quickly signed and returned the lease which had been in his possession for over 2 months. I also learn that he and his girlfriends fighting has been complained about by numerous people in the building and that he punched through a hallway window sending large shards of glass onto the sidewalk below. The property manager claims that though to her and everyone in the building he is the only logical suspect, since she can't definitively prove it she can't do anything about it. I brought up the subject of his girlfriend living in the apartment illegally and she said that he said "She comes by one in a while but she doesn't live here" which is a complete baldfaced lie. I reiterated to the property manager that I wanted him out of the apt and she said that since he had now signed the lease it was actually better for me as he was now liable as well. She also said that because of his actions and because of the statements of tenants in good standing(me and others in the building) that she would also like him removed, and said that he would have to pay all his past due rent plus penalties plus his half of the security deposit by 10/18 or she'd start the process of getting him removed.

It's now 10/19 and I haven't heard a word back from the property manager. I'm going to call tomorrow and see where the situation stands.

I've read over many of the posts on the forum as well as reviewed the landlord - tenant law for Virginia and have a couple questions:

1. Since he's lied to the property manager about his girlfriend living in the apt. illegally how can I prove that she is living here illegally?

2. Can he contact the property manager and have his girlfriend added to the lease without my knowledge or consent?

3. Am I better off now he's signed the lease or did I have a better chance of getting rid of him before he signed it? (I'm just curious because my property manager said I was better off with him having signed the lease but I'm beginning to think she's merely speaking out of her own interests and saying this to appease me.)

4. Even though the property manager is "on my side" can they evict him for lease violations and not me even if they want to? Or would they be forced to evict both of us in order to get rid of him?

5. If, hypothetically, they were to evict both of us *solely* based on his actions would I have any legal recourse against him?

6. If he stole or spitefully broke some of my possessions what would be the best recourse (aside from violent confrontation.. )?


Thanks for taking the time to read this. As you can probably tell I'm pretty stressed out and at my wits end and I would appreciate any help, legal or otherwise, about dealing with this type of situation.

[lgehner]

I've worked as a paralegal for MANY years and although I can't give you legal advice, I can give you some suggestions.

Depending upon HOW the leases read, you may both get booted. The leases should set forth the terms and conditions of being evicted, so read through them to find out if you can get tossed for his being an a**. It all depends on the wording. Good thing with his signing a lease, too, is that it is a legal binding document, making him contractually liable for his 1/2 of the rent. That gets YOU off the hook (unless the leases read otherwise) for his 1/2 of the rent. Bad thing with his signing is that he is now a "legal" resident of the apartment. So, short of violating the terms of the lease, you're stuck with him (again, unless the leases read otherwise).

Take pictures/video with date stamps of the girlfriend's stuff, girlfriend sleeping, etc. to illustrate the fact she's not just hanging out once in a while. Being female myself, I'm SURE there is enough girl stuff lying around to easily show she's living there.

I would advise your property manager in no uncertain terms you will not accept the girlfriend as a roommate. Again, I would presume your lease should have something about roommates. I can't imagine a property manager could just let someone move in to your apartment without your permission. What if you didn't want a roommate to begin with? The bum on the street could be your new roomie!

If he steals from you, call the police. If he destroys your property, call the police. If they don't seem to care, insist on filing a report. You will then have a paper trail. Be certain to photograph or video your stuff so you have a definitive record of what is yours and the condition your stuff is in. Make a list of everything you own (like you would do for property insurance companies). If the police don't do diddly, there is always small claims court.

Good luck!

[ScottGem]

Lg has given you pretty good advice. Yes, his signing the lease is MUCH better for you.
1) it removes you from being responsible for the full rent.
2) it formalizes his relation with the landlord so they can take action against him, relieving you of that responsibility.

A few other points here. First, I wouldn't worry that much about the g/f living there or not. That's really a minor violation, the non payment of rent should be enough to get him evicted. If he did bring his rent up to date, then you can deal with other violations.

It is possible that you might both get evicted, but it seems a far stretch. Since there are separate leases they are more liekly to treat each leaseholder separately.

Whether he can add the g/f to the lease or not depends on what controls you have. It's the one place where his signing the lease works to your disadvantage because now he deals directly with the prop mgr. I would suggest you make sure your lease specifies that you have refusal rights on any roommates.

You should move as many valuable items as you can from common areas to your room and put a good lock on the door. Make sure your renters insurance policy is in effect and make sure it covers damage from vandalism by a roommate. You may need to pay extra for a rider to that effect. And yes, make sure you have an accurate record of all your possessions.

[Cvillecpm]

The property manager should NOT deal with your tenant unless he is on your lease with them. If this is the case, you are both JOINTLY and SEVERALLY responsible for the payment of the full rent so you need to pay and then file a UD against the roommate to remove them from the premises... you would have been better off to NOT have him on the lease so you could just change the locks.

[ScottGem]

got a new, 1 year lease for us to sign and allowed him to move in.

The key here is the "us" in the above. I missed that in my initial read. If this lease was signed by you both and the landlord (or PM) then you are indeed Jointly and Severally responsible. However if the lease was between him and the PM, then they are treating you as separate leaseholders.

It seems, from what you have said, that the PM is treating you separately, but you need to confirm that.

[vermagnussen]

Hi all,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I may not have been clear in a few of the points.

We have both signed the same lease (literally the same piece(s) of paper). What happened was that the property manager dropped off the lease in July, which is when he moved in. I mistakenly thought that my old lease expired on the 1st of July but it in fact expired on July 31st. So rather than pay the extra $100 for the month (rent went up) I asked the property manager to create a new lease with a new date. Neither of us had signed this lease. So she did create a new lease whose term began the day after my old lease expired, 8/1. Rather than have both of us fill it out and sign it in her presence she just dropped it off and asked us to return it. I signed and dated the lease sometime around 8/12 (can't remember exact date) and handed it off to roommate and told him he needed to sign it and either give it back to me or return it to the property managers office directly. Around 9/14 the property manager came by to let a repairman in. I wasn't home at the time but he was. The property manager asked him about the lease which she hadn't yet received and he lied and said I still had it and haven't given it to him. He eventually would sign and return the lease 2 MONTHS after receiving it because the property manager threatened him about it.

So, since we have both signed the same lease we are both "Jointly and Severally Liable"? If so, the property manager is treating it in a very ambiguous way because when I asked her point blank if I would be responsible for things that he did she said NO. Also, when I asked her if I would then be responsible for his half of the rent (which he now pays directly to the property manager) if he didn't pay she said I WOULD but only if it got to the point they EVICTED HIM AND ONLY HIM from the apt. She was very clear in saying they would evict him and not me for his actions. My worry comes from reading the posts on here which seem to unanimously state that, by law EVERYONE in the apt. would have to be evicted even if they only wanted one of the residents out. Maybe she was just banking on the fact that he'd be too ignorant to know the law and simply leave if she ordered him to and threatened him with court.

lgehner - Thanks for your advice about trying to "prove" the girlfriend is living here illegally but I don't think pictures of her stuff are going to help me much. As to pictures of her sleeping... I don't think I can manage that as it would require sneaking into their room every night and snapping a flash picture. My guess is that his defence of "she's only here occassionaly" would be that her official mailing address is still her parents house and not here. The property manager has seen and noted that she is living here but is apparently willing to accept his total lie of "She's only here occassionally" despite the negative view she has of him.

Ideally I would like them both out of the apt. forever. However, if it seems like I can't get them both out I'd at least like to be rid of her noisome presence. If the property manager is reluctant to follow her own end of the lease (by taking action against him for having an illegal roommate) is there any official action I personally can take since I've also signed the lease?

Thanks for your time and responses, I really appreciate it.

[ScottGem]

No you wouldn't be held responsible for things that he "did", but you COULD be held responsible for the rent. In other words, if he doesn't pay, the entire unit is behind and that could mean they could evict you for non payment of rent.

What it sounds like (and you might want to get this in writing) is that the PM wants to keep you as a tenant and is willing to evict him alone. What I would do is place the back rent in an escrow account and inform the PM, confidentially, that you have done so and will make good on the back rent once he's gone.

I do not believe there is anything in the law that states they HAVE to take action against both of you. Clearly they can, but I think the PM may have some discretion in this matter.

Again, the g/f is a minor issue here. Worst comes to worst, they do file eviction against you both. Then the PM turns around and excutes a new lease with just you and you move back in.

[lgehner]

So, since we have both signed the same lease we are both "Jointly and Severally Liable"?

This would depend on how the law reads in VA. In South Dakota, the answer to that is YES. It would be synonymous with my writing a bad check on our joint account, me keeling over dead and the business coming after my husband for the money.

lgehner - Thanks for your advice about trying to "prove" the girlfriend is living here illegally but I don't think pictures of her stuff are going to help me much. As to pictures of her sleeping...I don't think I can manage that as it would require sneaking into their room every night and snapping a flash picture. My guess is that his defence of "she's only here occassionaly" would be that her official mailing address is still her parents house and not here. The property manager has seen and noted that she is living here but is apparantly willing to accept his total lie of "She's only here occassionally" despite the negative view she has of him.

I suppose this, too, would depend on what the PM considers "living" there. Quite frankly, if I saw a makeup bag, feminine hygiene products, curling iron and/or other "girl" stuff lying around a man's apartment, I would say there is a woman living there. One or two small things - yeah she could be there occasionally. Enough stuff that it takes more than one trip to the car to get rid of it - she's living there.

Ideally I would like them both out of the apt. forever. However, if it seems like I can't get them both out I'd at least like to be rid of her noisome presence. If the property manager is reluctant to follow her own end of the lease (by taking action against him for having an illegal roommate) is there any official action I personally can take since I've also signed the lease?

Talk to the PM, again. Explain the situation. Get other tenants involved. I would think that with their ruckus and disruptions, other tenants may be willing to complain to the PM, too. If all else fails, get in touch with legal aid to see if there is anything you can do to get rid of the baggage.

Thanks for your time and responses, I really appreciate it.

You're quite welcome. I hope it turns out for you...and you get some peace!

[Cvillecpm]

Yes - you will be held responsible for EVERYTHING - you both have the same standing with the PM/landlord. Either you pay the entire rent and collect your roommate's share or you BOTH will be evicted no matter who pays what each month. Your roommate's bad debt will become your bad credit.

You need to have a discussion regarding your options WITH the PM without the roommate - explain the situation. You can't enforce the landlord rules regarding occupancy, etc - only the landlord/PM can do that.

After discussion with PM and your paying the ENTIRE rent, if I were you, I'd sue your roommate and his GF for unpaid rent that is owed in VA Small Claims court. HeHeHe.

[ScottGem]

Again, I have to disagree with Cville in this instance. If we are to believe what you have told us, the PM is enforcing the rules to your advantage. I don't think you have pay the roomates share until you are faced with eviction, that's why I think you should pay that money into a separate account so you have it if necessary. But I would NOT pay until necessary.

[LUNAGODDESS]

"... It's now 10/19 and I haven't heard a word back from the property manager. I'm going to call tomorrow and see where the situation stands.

I've read over many of the posts on the forum as well as reviewed the landlord - tenant law for Virginia and have a couple questions:

1. Since he's lied to the property manager about his girlfriend living in the apt. illegally how can I prove that she is living here illegally?

You can prove she is residing there if you have mail that was delivered to your apartment...but understand this if your lease requires all that resides there to be on the lease...you may be evicted...this however is under the concerns of the landlord according to § 55-248.21...it my be physical and health issue

2. Can he contact the property manager and have his girlfriend added to the lease without my knowledge or consent?

NO...only if his name is the only name on the lease with the landlord can he do so...

3. Am I better off now he's signed the lease or did I have a better chance of getting rid of him before he signed it? (I'm just curious because my property manager said I was better off with him having signed the lease but I’m beginning to think she's merely speaking out of her own interests and saying this to appease me.)

Yes, ...she made the statement in support of her own issues...if you failed to pay the rent and had to be evicted then she can collect from one of you or the both...she stands to win...but for you ...there are some rights for your roommate...but you can go and have him evicted...by calling the police and they will give you your rights in this event...

4. Even though the property manager is "on my side" can they evict him for lease violations and not me even if they want to? Or would they be forced to evict both of us in order to get rid of him?

The land lord is responsible for the care of his residence...§55-22 or §55-248.37 the landlord may not / can not retaliate or bring or threatening to bring any action for possession of the apartment...

5. If, hypothetically, they were to evict both of us *solely* based on his actions would I have any legal recourse against him?

No...None that I can find...since, he is your company you will be asked to leave also... for you are responsible for your guest..

6. If he stole or spitefully broke some of my possessions what would be the best recourse (aside from violent confrontation... )?

You can sue for harassments and destruction of your property and responsible for mental distress...(go to the doctor for a direct explanation of that situation)...

[Cvillecpm]

. If, hypothetically, they were to evict both of us *solely* based on his actions would I have any legal recourse against him?

No... None that I can find... since, he is your company you will be asked to leave also... for you are responsible for your guest..

I DISAGREE - IF YOU CAN PROVE HE IS THE REASON FOR YOUR BEING REMOVED, YOU CAN SUE HIM.

6. If he stole or spitefully broke some of my possessions what would be the best recourse (aside from violent confrontation... )?

IF YOU HAVE PROOF, FILE A POLICE REPORT AND SUE HIM IN VA SMALL CLAIMS COURT.