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With you Excon ,
I just wish the President would give the rhetorical support to the green revolution they deserve like Reagan gave to the Polish Solidarnosk movement .I am concerned that America is losing an opportunity to ride an anti-authoritarian wave which first showed itself in Hezbollah's defeat in the Lebanese elections and is now in Iran.It is my hope that some covert support is going their way ,and that the President considers more direct means to at least show who's side we are on. At least Congress approved a resolution “in support of Iranian dissidents” by a vote of 405-1.( Ron Paul voted against... Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and David Loebsack (D-Iowa) voted present. ).Even the EU media have turned hawkish and neocon after the murderous threats by Ayatollah Khamenei. It is my sincere prayer that these brave protesters will not be rendered irrelevant and brutally suppressed for lack of support ,like the protesters at Tiananmen Square 1989 . Already I applaud the State Depts. Efforts to keep the internet tools like Twitter available so the truth can be communicated worldwide. They asked Twitter to delay a scheduled service outage while the protests are ongoing . In light of the bogus elections does the President really think he can engage with this regime of radical homicidal delusional clerics ? Perhaps now would be a good time to put economic pressure on the regime. That is where the President's so called skills in diplomacy would come in handy... not in direct dealings with the mullahs ;but in building a multilateral coalition aimed at the Iranian economic assets. |
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Yes regime changes has done wonders for the U.S.Maybe a little history lesson is in order
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If only Obama would take after our French counterparts on this. Ain't that something, we now have the French president. The Obama White House even has an astonishing French-like arrogance to credit his Cairo speech - the one where he condemns Muslim women to the hijab - for inspiring the protesters.
But privately Obama advisers are crediting his Cairo speech for inspiring the protesters, especially the young ones, who are now posing the most direct challenge to the republic's Islamic authority in its 30-year history.
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From a twitter : "Again we say thank you to our friends who are helping from outside - you know who you are - Sea of Green" The President can't look at himself in the mirror and say he has done anything to help. His hedging his bets is not showing leadership . He instead shows Chamberlain like timidity in his actions and words. Rest in Peace Neda 
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It makes much more sense to not get involved. It isn't your place to tell them what to do. You've tried to do that in the past, and look how well that's worked out for you. It's good to be concerned, and watch very closely, since this is going to affect Iran for years to come, even after the rioting is over there is probably going to be a "new" Iran after it is all said and done with. It's history in the making.
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You mean like vowing to teach the protesters a lesson and charging families a $3000 "bullet fee" after murdering the children? That kind of "new" Iran? Since when should free countries stop advocating for liberty and human rights in despotic regimes? Iran "interferes" in many countries, should we just be OK with that? |
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Giving support is not "telling them what to do " .
As I said in my opening comment the US only gave overtly rhetorical support to Solidarnosk but it certainly helped the cause of liberty. Here is some of the text of Reagan's 1981 address to compare it against the weak-kneed Obama reaction . As I speak to you tonight, the fate of a proud and ancient nation hangs in the balance. For a thousand years, Christmas has been celebrated in Poland, a land of deep religious faith, but this Christmas brings little joy to the courageous Polish people. They have been betrayed by their own government. The men who rule them and their totalitarian allies fear the very freedom that the Polish people cherish. They have answered the stirrings of liberty with brute force, killings, mass arrests, and the setting up of concentration camps. Lech Walesa and other Solidarity leaders are imprisoned, their fate unknown. Factories, mines, universities, and homes have been assaulted. The target of this depression [repression] is the Solidarity Movement, but in attacking Solidarity its enemies attack an entire people. Ten million of Poland's 36 million citizens are members of Solidarity. Taken together with their families, they account for the overwhelming majority of the Polish nation. By persecuting Solidarity the Polish Government wages war against its own people. I urge the Polish Government and its allies to consider the consequences of their actions. How can they possibly justify using naked force to crush a people who ask for nothing more than the right to lead their own lives in freedom and dignity? Brute force may intimidate, but it cannot form the basis of an enduring society, and the ailing Polish economy cannot be rebuilt with terror tactics. But if the forces of tyranny in Poland, and those who incite them from without, do not relent, they should prepare themselves for serious consequences. Already, throughout the Free World, citizens have publicly demonstrated their support for the Polish people. Our government, and those of our allies, have expressed moral revulsion at the police state tactics of Poland's oppressors. The Church has also spoken out, in spite of threats and intimidation. I want emphatically to state tonight that if the outrages in Poland do not cease, we cannot and will not conduct ``business as usual'' with the perpetrators and those who aid and abet them. Make no mistake, their crime will cost them dearly in their future dealings with America and free peoples everywhere. I do not make this statement lightly or without serious reflection. Address to the Nation About Christmas and the Situation in Poland |
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
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Hello again, I don't know the answer. On the one hand, I'm afraid that if Obama speaks in support of them publicly, more of them will rise up - and get killed... I also don't know if speaking up will cause them to rise up - and foment a revolt. If I knew the result, it would be easier to make a pronouncement. Talk is cheap - especially if that's ALL there is. Sabre rattling doesn't work if you ain't got the goods to back it up. We don't. As you Republicans are won't to say, words CAN get people killed. I remember Tiananmen Square. US President George H. W. Bush announced sanctions on the People's Republic of China, following calls to action from members of Congress such as US Senator Jesse Helms, just like the right is doing today. Then thousands were killed. The people who did it are our trading partners today. I do have to wonder, though, where the right's newfound support for the Iranian people comes from. It wasn't long ago that your leader was singing a song about bombing them. Seems to me a few more than Neda would have gotten hurt. But, what do I know? excon |
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My support for them has been consistent . About our comments and support getting people killed ; well yes that can happen .Were more continental Europeans killed during the liberation than may have been killed if we had not acted ? Perhaps there will be less blood shed if we don't speak up and give them aid and support . But the trade off might be that they lose the chance for perhaps another generation of shedding the brutal tyranny they live under . What I would not want to see is the implied promise of more direct action not being delivered like what happened to the Iraqi Shia and Kurds 1991. I just heard parts of the President's press conference and he is beginning to ratchet it up a bit. |
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The Washington Times is reporting that the President sent a letter to the Mullahs in Iran offering better relationships before the elections in the expectation that the Mahdi-hatter would win in a landslide.
The letter ,sent early May ,laid out the prospect of “cooperation in regional and bilateral relations” and a resolution of the dispute over Iran's nuclear program. It was given to the Iranian Foreign Ministry by a representative of the Swiss Embassy and then delivered to Ayatollah Khamenei. It just gets me wondering if the President had a stake in the outcome based on his expectations of future dealings with the reigning powers in the country ;and if that was a determining factor in his initial lame reaction to events.  Rest in Peace Neda |
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From yesterday's press conference :
“We have provided a path whereby Iran can reach out to the international community, engage and become a part of international norms," ... "It is up to them to make a decision as to whether they choose that path. What we've been seeing over the last several days, and the last couple of weeks, obviously is not encouraging in terms of the path that this regime may choose to take.” If I didn't know better I'd swear that the President is creating preconditions to engagement . But we know he doesn't think we should. |
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"We have provided a path... " certainly sounds like preconditions.
The violence continues...
New clashes reported in Iran
Posted: 11:25 AM ET TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) — Security forces wielding clubs and firing weapons beat back demonstrators who flocked to a Tehran square Wednesday to continue protests, with one witness saying security forces beat people like “animals.” At least two trusted sources described wild and violent conditions at a part of Tehran where protesters had planned to demonstrate. “They were waiting for us,” the source said. “They all have guns and riot uniforms. It was like a mouse trap.” “I see many people with broken arms, legs, heads — blood everywhere — pepper gas like war,” the source said. Around “500 thugs” with clubs came out of a mosque and attacked people in the square, another source said. The security forces were “”beating women madly” and “killing people like hell,” the source said. “They beat up a woman so bad she was all bloody,” the source said in a description that underscores the growing and central role of women in the uprising. |
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According to unconfirmed sources the regime has determined it is safe to unleash the dogs. The threat to the regime is demographic in that more than half the population is young. . If it were just university students dressed in green and carrying English speaking protest banners... and the Mullahs could be insured it would not further spread then they would not be reacting as viciously. But they fear this movement could begin to influence the working class . Without the working class and the shop owners ;the protest will wither on the vine.
Major-GeneralMohammed Ali Jafari of the IRGC has his marching orders to shut down the protests with the assist of the Basij militia . Iranian intelligence has been successful in identifying and arresting many Tweeters and disrupting cell phone communications. They are going to the hospitals to arrest the wounded. The one thing that could save the day for the protests is the influence of the Shia supreme leader Ayatollah al-Sistani in Iraq. Radio free Europe reported that Hashemi Rafsanjani met with representatives of al-Sistani. Sistani has a lot of influence over Iranian Shia and he has always been opposed to clerical rule of the nation. He has always expressed the opinion that Islam and democratic rule of the people can coexist .Many Iranians send their tithes to Sistani, not Khamenei. If Sistani can influence events there is still a chance. Rest in Peace Neda |
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I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, Obama has a responsibility to support the fledgling democratic movement in Iran, and should take a strong stance in the media. Especially after he tried to take credit for helping shape the election in Iran, and by extension helping form the democratic movement. He has a responsibility. On the other hand, any day Obama keeps his mouth shut and his face off the TV cameras and doesn't say something that screws over America, especially in the foreign media, is a good day. And we have so few good days these days. Elliot |
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