[smoothy]

Pot kills brain cells... and wilts the willy.

Now the potheads won't see this of course... but a straight and sober person can spot it across the room.

[excon]

exy, it is a fallicy to state "ive done this, so that generalization is BS"

Hello kp:

You showed my words, and then misquoted them. How did you do that?

I put forward MY experiences. I did NOT say the generalization was BS. IF the reader wanted to make their own conclusions based upon my experience, then so be it.

I think the instructive part of this communication, is that generalizations tend to be general.

excon

[kp2171]

You showed my words, and then misquoted them. How did you do that?

I put forward MY experiences. I did NOT say the generalization was BS. IF the reader wanted to make their own conclusions based upon my experience, then so be it.

On second pass I did overgeneralize. You stated:

"Artlady found the stuff from the anti marijuana crowd. I dunno if it's true or not, but I don't believe it."

And then I went bonkers at the idea that something could be true, but you would chose to not believe it, even if it might be true.

Sorry about my projecting your opinion onto a bigger stage than you intended. You said it personally and I made it a general edict. My bad.

On that note, I never addressed what was mentioned... lower testosterone, sperm count...

I've not done extensive searches in the literature... and when I say "literature" I mean primary medical articles... not online crap... I have no problem with online sites if they provide the primary medical journal data with footnotes. Most don't... but I will say I think the data is more mixed than online sites state.

In a cursory glance, one of the most cited articles concerning testosterone drops was done over 30 years ago, and did see an acute, small drop in testosterone... but levels seemed to recover with chronic use. So technically, levels can drop... but that is somewhat taken out of context. Other research, like that which was done at a primary med center down the road from me, saw no statistically relevant drops. As testosterone is intimately tied to libido, that's a revelent stat that shouldn't be skewed as it appears to be... ill look some more for supporting evidence, but I'm always suspicious about repeatability when the article cited is over three decades old.

Sidenote, in the same vein there have been mixed studies showing serum testosterone drops (or not) with use of... licorice. Damn them black jelly beans!. winkie wasters, they are! Or not. It actually does have physiological effects, but the parallel to the pot/testosterone issue is pretty similar... inconclusive results.

Uh back on topic... same with sperm count... there are a few primary articles I've seen show lower counts, but the doses were incredibly high (pardon the pun) with small drops in sperm count. Now, I don't know about sperm quality and motility... wouldn't be surprised to see some quality issues. Don't know about motility. Maybe the boys will get distracted. Stop at white castle on the way. ;)

Might putter more around this. If anyone has sources theyd want me to read, I'm open to it. Looking for things like Journal of ________ (insert medical term here), NEJM, JAMA, Lancet, etc...

[excon]

and then i went bonkers at the idea that something could be true, but you would chose to not believe it, even if it might be true.

might putter more around this. if anyone has sources theyd want me to read, im open to it. looking for things like Journal of ________ (insert medical term here), NEJM, JAMA, Lancet, etc...

Hello again, KP:

I don't believe those things, not because I'm in denial, but because I've read studies too.

The real problem with marijuana, is the government's classification of it as a schedule 1 narcotic. That gives them the ability to SHUT THE DOOR on marijuana research..

The only place a university can obtain LEGAL marijuana for study is from the government itself. It's grown in Mississippi by people who grow crap pot. Studying crap, if you can get it, is going to produce crap results...

There's a reason for this, of course. The last government study was done by Nixon who was told to legalize pot after the results were in. That's probably the reason they don't want any more studies. There's no question that the government has an agenda for keeping pot illegal...

Given the scarcity of real scientific data, there's an abundance of anecdotal information out there. Therefore, one can find, what one wishes to find.

Hopefully, a site I rely on isn't MY wish list. Check it out if you want.

Welcome | Drug War Facts

excon

[smoothy]

Totally unscientific... but every pothead I've known, and I've known a few, showed all the negative aspects I mentioned... oh THEY felt energized... but to everyone else they looked and acted like any other stoner. They couldn't perform up the standards at work, and showed no positive aspects... muck like an alcoholic isn't at the top of their game.

Oh they will be quick to agrue otherwise, but then, just how qualified are they to judge imparement through a pot induced haze.

Yeah they it showed when they were stoned just like you can spot someone who has had a few too many. Different imparement, but its imparement just the same.

[excon]

Hello again, smoothy:

It should also be noted that my support for ending the drug war, and ending the propaganda surrounding marijuana, DOES NOT translate into support for its use.

It IS a drug. It DOES do all of those things you mentioned. It should NOT be used by children.

The same can be said, and WORSE, for alcohol. Yet that is a legal drug that kills more than 100,000 people every year in this country alone.

Pot never killed anybody.

That said, the most dangerous aspect of smoking pot should NOT be getting caught with it.

excon

[smoothy]

Oh, you won't be hearing me praising alcohol either. I think getting plastered is about as stupid as getting stoned. Or high. Or for that matter any type of tobacco use.

[Synnen]

I apparently don't get to edit the top post when moving them all--but this discussion is not necessarily pertinent to the original question it was posted on.

This is more of a discussion about marijuana, rather than addressing the ED issues that came up in the original post.