[De Maria]

1 Corinthians 15

29 Otherwise what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? Why are they then baptized for them?

I think it means that some are martyred for the faith:

Mark 10 38 And Jesus said to them: You know not what you ask. Can you drink of the chalice that I drink of: or be baptized with the baptism wherewith I am baptized?

What do you think?

[RickJ]

For what it's worth, here is the entry from Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary:

Who are baptized for the dead.[1] He still brings other proofs of the resurrection. This is a hard place, and the words are differently expounded. 1. Several late interpreters understand a metaphorical baptism, and that to be baptized for the dead, is to undertake self-denials, mortifications, and works of penance, in hopes of a happy resurrection; and this exposition agrees with what follows, of being exposed to dangers every hour, of dying daily, &c. But if this had been the apostle's meaning, he would rather have said, Who baptize themselves. Besides, this exposition is not so much as mentioned in any of the ancient interpreters. 2. Some think that St. Paul tells the Corinthians that they ought not to question the resurrection of the dead, who had a custom among them, if any one died without baptism, to baptize another that was living for him; and this they did, fancying that such a baptism would be profitable to the dead person, in order to a happy resurrection. Tertullian mentions this custom in one or two places, and also St. Chrysostom on this place. But it does not seem probable that St. Paul would bring any argument of the resurrection from a custom which he himself could not approve, nor was ever approved in the Church. 3. St. Chrysostom and the Greek interpreters, who generally follow him, expound these words, who are baptized for the dead, as if it were the same as to say, who receive baptism with hopes that they themselves, and all the dead, will rise again; and therefore make a profession, when they are baptized, that they believe the resurrection. So that St. Paul here brings this proof among others, that they who have been made Christians, and continue Christians, cannot call in question the resurrection, which they professed to believe in their creed at their baptism, the creed being always repeated before they were baptized. 4. Others, by being baptized for the dead, understand those who begged and called for baptism when they were in danger of death, and would by no means go out of this world without being baptized, hoping thereby to have a happy resurrection of their bodies; so that to be baptized for the dead is the same as on the account of the state of the dead, which they were entering into. See St. Epiphanius, hær. viii. p. 114. Edit Petavii. (Witham) Some think the apostle here alludes to a ceremony then in use: but others, more probably, to the prayers and penitential labours performed by the primitive Christians for the souls of the faithful departed: or to the baptism of afflictions and sufferings undergone for sinners spiritually dead. (Challoner)

[galveston]

Since Paul is dealing with the topic of the resurretion of Jesus Christ, I believe he is asking "Why would you be baptised in the Name of Jesus if Jesus is not alive?"
The very act of baptism proclaims our faith in the fact that Jesus is alive.

[JoeT777]

I understand that this verse can be taken several ways. It can’t be understood to be literal because ‘baptism of the dead’ is heresy; the reasons should be obvious.

One such interpretation is suggested by St Chrysostom : “Paul recalling to their minds said, if there be no resurrection, why are you then baptized for the dead.” (St Chrysostom, Homily 40 CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 40 on First Corinthians (Chrysostom) ). Which to my way of thinking makes good sense – You might want to read Chrysostom’s Homily. I get the sense he tries to make a joke – it falls rather flat on these nerdy ears.

Archbishop John MacEvilly suggested aa paraphrases as follows: "Another argument in favor of the resurrection. If the dead will not arise, what means the profession of faith in the resurrection of the dead, made at baptism? Why are we all baptized with a profession of our faith in their resurrection?" (See Newadvent.org – Baptism)

The following link gives a few other suggestions: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism see heading ‘Baptism of the dead’

JoeT

[sndbay]

1 Corinthians 15

29 Otherwise what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? why are they then baptized for them?

I think it means that some are martyred for the faith:

What do you think?

1 Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Cr 15:35-36 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

Dead to this world spiritual speeching, newness of life with the spirit of Christ

1 Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Otherwise satan: Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Also known as being buried in Christ.. Baptism is a righteous act of doing God's Will , it can be pleasing to God as Christ shows us the Way..

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Unless we are dead in Christ,we can not rise like Christ.(Romans 6:5)

[arcura]

De Maria.
I do not fully understand what is being said in that.
I've had several thoughts and the only one that makes sense to me at the moment is that it is saying that it does no good to baptize a living person for someone who has passed away.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

De Maria.
I do not fully understand what is being said in that.
I've had several thoughts and the only one that makes sense to me at the moment is that it is saying that it does no good to baptize a living person for someone who has passed away.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hi Fred, The verse that is in question is actually (an insert verse) that goes over what has already been spoken of and is being used in question..

It actually follows on from v-19 and was in refer of v-15 statement.. The statement made is like saying "If you believe Christ rose, then you know those in Christ rise when absence from this world." Then you can better answer v- 29..?

1 Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

baptized = being baptized, the dead why are they, reads why are they baptized also? (It is) for the dead. Is it to remain dead, if there be no resurrection (v 13) The argument is, What is the use of being baptized, if it is only to remain dead? We know the answer to this is to rise like Christ. So is it to remain dead? No!

Hope that helped

[JoeT777]

Hi Fred, The verse that is in question is actually (an insert verse) that goes over what has already been spoken of and is being used in question..

Are you saying this verse is a redaction (a revision or correction)? I’m curious as to how you come to this conclusion? Can you direct me to the reference you used for this opinion? No argument – just curiosity.

JoeT

[arcura]

sndbay,
It helps,
Thanks,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

Are you saying this verse is a redaction (a revision or correction)? I'm curious as to how you come to this conclusion? Can you direct me to the reference you used for this opinion? No argument – just curiosity.

JoeT

Hi Joe, Yes of course, thank you for asking.
My refer is The Companion Bible.. JKV by strong, It can be easily used with the Concordance Hebrew Greek refer.

No it is not a revision or correction, but reiterates by question to assure and reenforce the detail of the message.

[De Maria]

1 Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Cr 15:35-36 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

Dead to this world spiritual speeching, newness of life with the spirit of Christ

1 Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Otherwise satan: Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Also known as being buried in Christ.. Baptism is a righteous act of doing God's Will , it can be pleasing to God as Christ shows us the Way..

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Unless we are dead in Christ,we can not rise like Christ.(Romans 6:5)

Concerning what you have posted, it would seem to me then that you are agreeing with what I said. St. Paul is describing being martyred for the faith.

1 Corinthians 15: 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? 30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

Jesus died for the dead, did He not?

Jesus died that the dead may rise to new life. Therefore, Jesus was the first martyr, (unless you count the Holy Innocents) for the faith.

And so, to me, St. Paul is asking,

What shall they do who suffer and die for the dead? If the dead rise not at all? Why do they risk their lives? Why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

The context seems to fit.

Anyway, that's what I'm also understanding from your post. Did I read you right?

[De Maria]

De Maria.
I do not fully understand what is being said in that.
I've had several thoughts and the only one that makes sense to me at the moment is that it is saying that it does no good to baptize a living person for someone who has passed away.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

As you know, Baptism has more than one meaning.

Remember when Jesus said to the Apostles:

Matthew 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Jesus was here referring to His passion and crucifixion. He meant that they also would suffer and die for the faith.

And this is the sense in which I believe St. Paul is using the term in this verse.

[De Maria]

...

The following link gives a few other suggestions: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism see heading ‘Baptism of the dead’

JoeT

Good source. I think this corresponds with what I'm saying:

There is another probable interpretation, which understands the words 'baptism' and 'dead' in a metaphorical sense, and refers them to the sufferings which the Apostles and heralds of salvation underwent to preach the Gospel to the infidels, dead to grace and spiritual life, with the hope of making them sharers in the glory of a happy resurrection. The word 'baptism' is employed in this sense in Scripture, even by our divine Redeemer Himself -- 'I have a baptism wherewith to be baptized', etc. And the word 'dead' is employed in several parts of the New Testament to designate those spiritually dead to grace and justice. In the Greek, the words 'for the dead', uper ton nekron that is, on account of or, in behalf of the dead, would serve to confirm, in some degree, this latter interpretation.

[sndbay]

Concerning what you have posted, it would seem to me then that you are agreeing with what I said. St. Paul is describing being martyred for the faith.

The greek word for martyred would mean figuratively speaking a record or witness, yet many think it means to describe an individual who sacrifices his or her life. Scripture does record and witness that Christ shed His blood for us, and that He died to raise on the 3rd day to defeat death... I comprehend death as satan...victory!

1 Corinthians 15: 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The course here would show that Christ does conquer, with a further predestined victory shown.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

This verse goes back to settle what seems to be God's all knowing way of answering any questions that could arrive from the message previously given. It reiterates by way of any further questions? and uses question to reenforce the message previously written in v-19 (posted #7 Quote )

Jesus died for the dead, did He not?

I believe He die to conquer death, and death is satan. The blood shed was to wash the sins caused by evil.

Jesus died that the dead may rise to new life.

Jesus died so that we might have Eternal Life... We are baptized to newness of life which is dead in Christ (or bretter said dead to this world of evil when we walk in Christ. His Way, His Light) Christ shows us the Way!

Therefore, Jesus was the first martyr, (unless you count the Holy Innocents) for the faith.

Therefore Jesus was the flesh of The Word, brought forth to fulfill what was written. ( John 1:1)

Why do they risk their lives? Why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

#1 To follow Christ.... Because

2 Cr 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

[sndbay]

We are told not to let man beguile us with false teaching, intruding into those things not seen, and those things that man's pride causes them to follow. These are they (who do not) hold fast the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.


While those that are faithful, and stedfast servants, who are dead in Christ (baptized) from the rudiment of this world into newlife, (will indeed) hold fast the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Spiritually we:
Walk in Christ = Dead in Christ/Newness of life =In His Way = In His Light, able to raise from the dead of baptism unto Eternal Life in Him when he returns.

Colossians 2:20-23 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?. Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Very interesting.
Thanks.
Peace and kindness,
Fred