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Water seeping in the basement
Please help. I have some water seeping in through the concrete walls in one area of the basement...
We have a sump pump but its dry and doesn't seem to be pumping, I have included pics in the attached link, the moisture issue is only on the top half where there is insulation. Water in Basement pictures from friends & fun photos on webshots Water is just seeping in, I am not sure if there is a grading issue or what. Any advice would be appreciated. |
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The water isn't leaking, the wall is wet, you can see it on the pics I have posted (please see link)... the sump pump is in the basement never had water in it... its a new 3yr old home. It has these blacks tubes sticking out so I am not sure if that's the french drain or not. |
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Even though you took and posted a lot of picture I'd love to be able to inspect. It does appear that your downspout is draining onto a concrete tray and this is not sufficient at all. Water dropping even a foot will splatter onto the wall and eventually soak everything. Move the downspout or extend it at least 5' from the foundation, regarde if necessary to get the gutter water to flow away from the foundation. Your damage isn't as sever as you might think bit all insulation that is damp must go. |
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Every time I see that set up I want to scream.
Fiberglass insulation should never be in direct contact with basement walls. Concrete even in good situations draws moisture and that moisture will end up in the insulation. Then we have a contractor who covers that fiberglass, that will get damp, with plastic so it can never dry out. Mold Mold Mold... Then we have regulations that say you can't put semi permeable foam on the wall without covering it with drywall because of the fire/smoke hazard. But, we can put exposed sheet plastic on the wall - I guess because it will give off a smaller amount of toxic smoke when it burns. Your wall is so damp in that area that the moisture is wicking up into that chip board and it won't be long before it molds and breaks down on you. A gutter that dumps water right at the foundation - another brilliant move on the contractors part. Regarding the gutter. Does your sump run out of the wall and feed into a drain line? If it does - run your gutter down - dig into the line and connect the gutter to that drain likes it's supposed to be. Check you local library for this book: Builders Guide to Cold Climates by Joseph Lstiburek. It will help you a lot - and maybe make you a little sick when you see what should have been done in your area. In the meantime take a look at this. In case you can't tell - I might have lived through this same situation recently. Off my soapbox now... Good luck to you... RR-0202: Basement Insulation Systems — |
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We realize the water is coming above ground. I have included a pic of the area with the basement window and you can see the water is coming above ground and if you look outside there is no snow or anything sitting against that area of the foundation wall. I am at a loos as to who wound be able to fix this. Do you have any insight on what could be happening or who might be able to repair this. Just to also point out there is no windows on the wall where we have the water seeping, just a down spout on the other side. Does it seem like there is water getting behing the brick and coming down? I am so lost... |
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Will see if we can chase this down. You mentioned brick. If there is any brick buried or very close to the . Get down on you hands and knees and really look hard at the first joint where the first brick was laid . It will be under the brick lip. If there is ONE bad joint that wasn't struck and a tiny bit of mortar missing that can and Will let water in on the top of the wall. If this brick is this a wire cut brick that has basically perfectly cut edges that could also be an issue also The wire cut brick has cores in them when they are made and its not solid. A wire cut brick because of the hollowness can actually let water through and even Drip inside the brick. From what I'm seeing here is maybe a two fold problem. The way your basement is insulated and the vapor barrier is totally a BAD way to finish off a basement. The vapor barrier traps in the moisture. The concrete wall doesn't looked sealed and then th fiberglass picks up moisture from the concrete wall and then you trap in the moisture in and case the insulation to get damp/ Here how that goes. Just 5% of moisture in glass insul kills 95% of its insul quality's. So now its magnified in condensation. The warmest part of the basement is at the top half of the wall off the floor. Look at the joist areas where its hotter and colder from outside. I really feel that a lot of the problem here is the total incorrect way the basement was done. Its double vapor barrier. The basement in side wall is a partial barrier and the ply trapping what's getting past that and the insul holds that in You can use a concrete sealer on the out side of the basement walls to slow down the first penetration of moisture in walls. I'm posting a video to help explain how much water of moisture that will get in the wall for the set up you have there. This will help explain it more. YouTube - Install Rigid Foam Insulation in Basement Video YouTube - Best way to insulate a basement 800x600 Signed 21 Boat If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer |
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The concrete foundation is about 2-3 feet off the ground, so the area where brick and concrete meet is about 2-3 ft above ground. We looked and we are finding the area on the image shown to be wet as well as the wood joist above to have some ice built up... starting to wonder more and more if this is a condensation issue. Re-insulating the entire basement isn't an option right now, wondering if the electrical panel has anything to do with why there is so much moisture in that one area, any comments on this? |
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Yes the concrete will suck in moisture form the outside air when the differences in temps changes. This will take place and turn into condensation at a point in the wall where it hits the inside and outside differences in temps. To stop that initial wall from sucking in the moisture is to seal it on the out side if you can. Not to mention when it gets rained on in all weather. Just for that reason alone is why foam board directly placed on the inside of the wall to keep the inside basement wall colder and help match the outside temps. At the same time the foam board stays warmer where it hits the basement air temp. Think of this like the dew on a summer grass in the Am. It happens because the air temp drooped just enough to react with how much humidity is in the air. The balance here is basic. Air temp change relative to air moisture content and a solid changes slower than the air. Less moisture in air more change in cold temp to get dew. More moisture in air less in temp change in the air to create moisture. That is what you experience when sitting out late on a mid summers night it still feels warm but you get a wet Butt when you go to sit down on a bench. This how the concrete reacts to the same laws of temp in moisture ratio. Two basic things a wall needs Seal it from direct outside moisture and insulate the wall ( get this in reverse to look at) FROM the heat on the inside. Its not all about insulating the wall so the inside is warm. The more the wall can be kept at ANY temp equally from the inside outside NOTHING happens. It equalizes all reaction of hot/cold condensation. The concrete is also fighting capillary action of what is buried in the ground. So that moisture is getting up in the wall and rising toward the warmer tiny air pockets and traveling vertically in the wall and when that hits the warmer upper portion of the wall it starts to kick off surface moisture. Because the insul there is all but directly on the concrete wall, the insul sucks in the moisture and the poly now traps it in making it worse. This is why I felt its two fold here. I'm been building concrete and basement walls for over 32 years. For the last 20 years been tearing out what you have there because that's the 70s mentality's of finishing off a basement. Styrofoam is what was used on the walls after we found the glass was a bad mix in a basement. Then we went to Styrofoam and had the right idea nut the Styrofoam was almost just as bad if not worse. So sorry for the news and I run into this 'We can't tear this all down" If the studs were kept in place I would seal the wall and Spray foam directly onto the basement wall. Here's the chart on foam per inch insul compared to glass. Compare Spray Foam | McGlaughlin Spray Foam Insulation YouTube - Tiger Foam. Spray Foam Insulation | basement & crawl space. Tiger Foam | Spray Foam Insulation Kits Signed 21 Boat If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer |
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By extending that down spot I see in the picture, things will probably improve considerably. It might take a while for you to see some improvement though, if the snow is melting and the weather is not exactly helping.
In addition you've mentioned that the house is only 3yo. That means that the soil around the foundation is not set. It is more lose than the surrounding undisturbed terrain, so it absorbs more water. Being over saturated, the resulting hydrostatic pressure will cause water to seep through the walls. I can't see in the pictures, how the terrain is graded around the house. Is it sloping away from the foundation walls? Another thing to consider is the fact that, with all the moisture that visibly seeps through, you mentioned that your sump pump pit is dry. That makes me wonder about the state of the foundation drainage system. Theoretically, it should be intercepting all that water, and diverting it, through gravity, to the sump pit. I'd recommend you call at least couple of waterproofing companies to inspect the place and give you suggestions and a quote. They will not charge for it, and you will have a few different expert opinions and some options to fix the problem. You pick the one that makes sense. As for the basement insulation setup you have there, I agree with Rivethead. That is a mold disaster waiting to happen and as 21boat points, might be greatly contributing to the problem you are experiencing. You might want to consider the suggested alternatives, or go for a basement wall system that will accomplish 3 things: give you thermal and moisture protection, along with a finished surface that will allow you to use your basement as additional living area. |
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Thank you for your answer. We are also starting to think it might be a condensation issue but what I don't understand is why it is mostly in that one area and wonder if the electrical panel has anything to do with it. Also in that area of the house is where a lot of things are run through the foundation wall and may be seals are not that great. As per your advice we do plan to seal the concrete outside, doest seem to hurt. We have already extended the downspout so that the water is running away from the foundation. Additionally we are thinking of insulating all the wholes where the pipes are run through the foundation wall. We are also thinking of sealing where the joists are and wonder if I should be using a silicon caulking or expanding foam for this seal, can you provide any insight? I am referring to the wooden area just above the concrete foundation, we are finding some of the chipboard to be frozen, that can't be a good thing? I am starting to thing may be it is more of a condensation issue, we have a dehumidifier running, I wonder if there is anything else we can do... changing out the insulation I will consider if we finish the basement. |
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The sump pump isn't running simply because there isn't water going to it. CYfree mentioned about the sump pump not running and maybe the foundation drainage is bad. Its food for thought by from what I see and hear here its BAD application of insulation and vapor barrier problems. You can a basement wall Dripping with water condensation problems of hit and cold and that will really NEVER make a sump pump run That small quantity would sink into the ground under the basement floor or just be absorbed in or below the concrete floor. Check around the mechanicals through wall . If they were bad that's were WATER would come in on a hard rain and make the floor wet and sump pump run. Hopefully the builder put down the plate roll insulation below the as you call it the rim joist. This joist is ABOVE grade and the frost and wet is from the wrong application of insul. You can use caulk at the rim joist but that won't do a thing unless you spray foam it Refer back to the video I posted for you and that area is addressed for you Best of luck and keep us posted if you need more answers The joist cavity's and the frost is exactly why you have insul/moisture problems. The joist above grade is not a caulk issue the way you are thinking. If actual Water from the out side gets in all the caulk would do is trap it in the end 2x10 board and rot that end. The caulk id to keep cold air flow from behind the board. Signed 21 Boat If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer |
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