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nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by itried

You will be reinforcing it, no doubt about it. The problem is that she doesn't think she's spoiled so she doesn't feel like she is that way. You however, accept this about her and are obviously willing to overlook this and love her anyways. At the age of 37, I doubt she will change at all. But maybe I'm wrong. In any case, if this is something you don't mind dealing with then you're going to have to approach it in that way. I know it's hard to deal with but it's probably the only way.

Your probably right. She will never change, especially if I give in again. But I'm wondering if this no-contact stuff I keep hearing about will work in this situation. Let's say I don't call, e-mail or anything else, think it might make her think twice? Think she will start thinking that I'm not the same anymore, that I just won't give in like before. What do you think? Or do you think I still owe her an apology for that night?

itried · Jan 20, 2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Your probably right. She will never change, especially if I give in again. But I'm wondering if this no-contact stuff I keep hearing about will work in this situation. Let's say I don't call, e-mail or anything else, think it might make her think twice? Think she will start thinking that I'm not the same anymore, that I just won't give in like before. What do you think? Or do you think I still owe her an apology for that night?

I do think that you slightly over-reacted to her by leaving at the theater. It would only add more pressure on her if she went home to her parents and they knew she was seeing you. Can you imagine all the question she would be bombarded with by them? So, I understand where she is coming from. In your case, the no contact thing probably won't be as effective because there is a kid involved and practicality precludes NC. If you have to see her, just let it be in relation to your children and don't talk about the problems you two are having. She has to come around on her own. She won't want to get back together if she feels like she has to apologize to get there. It's just in their nature.

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by itried

I do think that you slightly over-reacted to her by leaving at the theater. It would only add more pressure on her if she went home to her parents and they knew she was seeing you. Can you imagine all the question she would be bombarded with by them? So, I understand where she is coming from. In your case, the no contact thing probably won't be as effective because there is a kid involved and practicality precludes NC. If you have to see her, just let it be in relation to your children and don't talk about the problems you two are having. She has to come around on her own. She won't want to get back together if she feels like she has to apologize to get there. It's just in their nature.

I think you are right and have made some good points here. Maybe I'll apologize for my behaviour, and see what she says. I also think zeeniee made some good points with concentrating on getting myself together, and maybe not worry so much about the parents issue. It's just that I haven't had to deal with something like that since I was like 12 or 13. Women do seem to have that no fault nature, don't they?

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by zeeniee

Hey Nike1,
I don't mean to sound cruel, but i think you have to :

Start with YOU
Worry for YOU + the kids
Do what you have to do to get your life on track.

Stop wondering about her for now- focus on YOU and the kids.

One thing at a time- and take your time.

Maturity and sensiblity will speak in time

I think this is good advice, and I think I can incorporate this with some of the things itried said to come to some way of dealing with all this.

itried · Jan 20, 2009, 01:31 AM

Yeah, they do seem to have a no-fault clause built into them. It seems like you were on the path to reconciliation before the theater incident. So maybe apologizing for that will open a dialogue which leads to the solving of other problems. But to start, I would just begin by apologizing for that one incident. Then just see how she reacts. If you two get together again, there has to be some remorse from both of you.

In the meanwhile, just try to find answers to all the questions which have sprung up. Let her do the same and take it slow.

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:46 AM

Your right itried, and that's exactly how I'am going to go about this.

I would like to thank you all for your concern and advice. It has all been very helpful.

itried-zeeniee-dullath-talaniman, thanks again

I will keep you all up to date on the process on this thread. And I look forward to helping all of you with your questions and concerns as well.

HistorianChick · Jan 20, 2009, 06:55 AM

Ok, a woman's opinion... and, funny enough, I'm a woman who hid a relationship from my parent for two years. Know what? It ended VERY badly.

I think you need to be firm in what you believe. Honestly? In my opinion, the whole leaving-when-you-found-out-that-she-hadn't-told-her-parents thing was not too far-fetched. You were frustrated that she wasn't "man" enough to tell her parents that she was with you. Maybe you reacted out of anger, but you were right.

If there was one thing I learned from my time of hiding my relationship from my family, it's that NO good can come of it. She needs to own up her OWN feelings and tell her parents that she is trying to work on the relationship between her child's father and herself.

My opinion? She doesn't want to lose the support and she knows that if she decides on you, she will lose their constant bail-outs.

She needs to know that you're not willing to be hid from her parents. It's that simple. She has to grow up and decide what she wants.

It's a hard choice, but I made it.

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by HistorianChick

Ok, a woman's opinion... and, funny enough, I'm a woman who hid a relationship from my parent for two years. Know what? It ended VERY badly.

I think you need to be firm in what you believe. Honestly? In my opinion, the whole leaving-when-you-found-out-that-she-hadn't-told-her-parents thing was not too far-fetched. You were frustrated that she wasn't "man" enough to tell her parents that she was with you. Maybe you reacted out of anger, but you were right.

If there was one thing I learned from my time of hiding my relationship from my family, it's that NO good can come of it. She needs to own up her OWN feelings and tell her parents that she is trying to work on the relationship between her child's father and herself.

My opinion? She doesn't want to lose the support and she knows that if she decides on you, she will lose their constant bail-outs.

She needs to know that you're not willing to be hid from her parents. It's that simple. She has to grow up and decide what she wants.

Its a hard choice, but I made it.

This is exactly how I felt that night, and still struggle with now! Was I really wrong of how I re-acted? Do I really owe her an apology? I appreciate every viewpoint every one on here has given. And I'am slightly compelled to apologize and accept her ways, but something after all we've been through tells me not to. I want things to be right with each other, but I just can't understand why she feels we need to keep things in the dark! I was always there for her, I wasn't some bad, abusive guy. She claims I'm the love of her life, her soulmate. Then why cover it up? I really do feel it has a lot to do with her dependency on her parents, and they never seemed to want her to have a life of her own. By the way, she is an only child of their's. Throughout our relationship, there were red flags all over the place. Eveyone I knew told me to get away from her. But when she got pregnant, I just wanted a family again. I never wanted my wife to leave, but that was just 13 years in the making. I really didn't love my wife, and I can't blame her for leaving. But I loved having a family. When I met Kelly, we fell in love immediately. And to have a child together was all that much more to me. Her parents were so against it. They wanted her to get an abortion. She even started feeling that way. I came to a hard decision and told her that if she does, I could in no way stay with her after doing such a foolish thing and could never look at her the same way. She decided to keep the baby and stay in the relationship with me. I sold my house, got another management position that paid very well, and moved in with her to begin our new family. Things went bad this past year, she put me through so much drama that I lost my job. Because of that, I've had a hard time acquiring another. I tried so hard. I just don't know what to do. I still think there may be some hope for us, but I just don't know what I should do. Part of me says take it like a man, but the other part of me says don't let her get over on me again. I guess there is no point in hiding it from all of you anymore, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'am scared to make a decision on this! I don't want to lose the love of my life, but I also don't want to be a thing of convenience to her. I'm having such a hard time with this. Either way I go is a life changing risk in which I fear the outcome.

HistorianChick · Jan 20, 2009, 12:23 PM

I understand exactly what you are saying, and as a woman that has been in the shoes of this girl, I know what she is feeling.

I would venture to say that she loves you, loves being with you, loves the concept of a happily-ever-after with you, but also feels a tremendous sense of familial "duty." She feels that if she chooses you, she will lose her family; if she chooses her family, she will lose you. She doesn't want to lose her family, their support, their bail-outs, her history, but she also doesn't want to lose the relationship that she could have with you.

The one thing that she hasn't yet realized is that she is a MOTHER. She can no longer think of what she wants and what is best for her (bailouts or relationship), she needs to start thinking and acting like an adult and making adult decisions.

I think, in my opinion, you need to talk to her. You need to tell her that you can't go on like this. You can't go along with being the secret boyfriend. You HAVE a family. You made a child. She needs to decide whether she wants a family or if she wants to let her parents run her life.

IT is going to be a very hard decision for her, but she needs to grow up.

I don't think that you need to apologize. Honestly. I don't. She probably feels like you do because you are forcing her to confront her issues. But that's what should happen.

She can't have her cake and eat it too because it is tearing you up.

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by HistorianChick

I understand exactly what you are saying, and as a woman that has been in the shoes of this girl, I know what she is feeling.

I would venture to say that she loves you, loves being with you, loves the concept of a happily-ever-after with you, but also feels a tremendous sense of familial "duty." She feels that if she chooses you, she will lose her family; if she chooses her family, she will lose you. She doesn't want to lose her family, their support, their bail-outs, her history, but she also doesn't want to lose the relationship that she could have with you.

The one thing that she hasn't yet realized is that she is a MOTHER. She can no longer think of what she wants and what is best for her (bailouts or relationship), she needs to start thinking and acting like an adult and making adult decisions.

I think, in my opinion, you need to talk to her. You need to tell her that you can't go on like this. You can't go along with being the secret boyfriend. You HAVE a family. You made a child. She needs to decide whether she wants a family or if she wants to let her parents run her life.

IT is going to be a very hard decision for her, but she needs to grow up.

I don't think that you need to apologize. Honestly. I don't. She probably feels like you do because you are forcing her to confront her issues. But that's what should happen.

She can't have her cake and eat it too because it is tearing you up.

You are so right. I can understand she needs help right now from her parents. I'm not trying to take away from that. I just don't understand why she feels the need to hold her feelings back. I know that her parents would not kick her out if she expressed this to them. I feel you need to be honest with what you hold in your heart. And if she can't do that, it makes me wonder how she really feels. I know I need to explain all this to her. I'll probably send her an e-mail, just don't know exactly what to say yet.

talaniman · Jan 20, 2009, 02:04 PM

The only thing you need to really worry about is being a good man, and a good father, and don't let any ones attitude change that goal, to hell with them, and what they do, as you know what you have to do.

The rest is not your problem, but somebody else's.

Focus on that and let 'em b*tch.

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

The only thing you need to really worry about is being a good man, and a good father, and don't let any ones attitude change that goal, to hell with them, and what they do, as you know what you have to do.

The rest is not your problem, but somebody else's.

Focus on that and let 'em b*tch.

I'am a good father and a good man, I don't doubt that for one second! This isn't that kind of an issue, I know who I'am. I'm sorry, but I really don't see how this pertains to my situation. No offense.

HistorianChick · Jan 20, 2009, 02:19 PM

I don't know... I'm still not seeing where you need to apologize.

Maybe you were a real jerk when you got up and left, but to me, it seems like you're just fed up with being a secret.

And that is not wrong.

You're going to resent it until you are no longer a secret, clandestine boyfriend.

You're right, you do need to talk to her. I'd do it in person though...

talaniman · Jan 20, 2009, 02:28 PM

I really don't see how this pertains to my situation.

Maybe I wasn't clear, its not your problem what she does, thinks, or what you want her to think. Her actions are her own.

Gee whiz, apologize and do what you have to, what's all the pomp and ceremony about. If you were as good a man as you think, why even apologize. Why are you dragging yourself through this emotional mess?

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by HistorianChick

I don't know.... I"m still not seeing where you need to apologize.

Maybe you were a real jerk when you got up and left, but to me, it seems like you're just fed up with being a secret.

And that is not wrong.

You're going to resent it until you are no longer a secret, clandestine boyfriend.

You're right, you do need to talk to her. I'd do it in person though....

No, I wasn't a jerk at all! I just left. But I can't do it in person from reasons I've stated earlier, and I don't want to in person anyway. If she wants to continue holding secrets, than that's fine, I won't be a part of it. It's really her choice as far as I see it. She can have it either way. I'm debating whether not contacting her at all would do any good or what to say in a message if I do decide to tel her how I feel.

JudyKayTee · Jan 20, 2009, 03:45 PM

When you pick up your child for visitation or pay child support, what do the parents think - or say? Or aren't they involved in that?

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

When you pick up your child for visitation or pay child support, what do the parents think - or say? Or aren't they involved in that?

No

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Maybe I wasn't clear, its not your problem what she does, thinks, or what you want her to think. Her actions are her own.

Gee whiz, apologize and do what you have to, whats all the pomp and ceremony about. If you were as good a man as you think, why even apologize. Why are you dragging your self thru this emotional mess?

It is my problem what she thinks. I love her, she says she loves me, and we are in this relationship together. Her actions affect this relationship, affect me and any other part of our lives. And do what I have to do? I think that's why I posted this, to try to figure it all out. And I'm "dragging myself through this emotional mess" because it is all a mess, and I'm trying to get some help and input to help straighten this mess out and put it all into perspective. I'm just not sure what to do yet tala.

talaniman · Jan 20, 2009, 09:55 PM

Your split from your g/f, due to finances, made worse through over reacting.

On some level you two are not working together, and she needs her family to support her, and her kids. Apologizes with your actions, by getting your own finances together to support your kids.

The rest is feelings, let them go, and focus on what those kids need, and the hell with the adults.

Focus on what's really needed, putting yourself on a solid foundation as the relationship is secondary at this point.

Leave whatever her, and her parents are doing out of your business. Trust me when you stop tripping on what motivates her thinking, and decisions, you will end this confusion and your course will be clearer.

I have been through your threads a couple of times now, and everyone agrees that you need to be solid, and able to care for your kids, and let the rest go until after you take care of your personal business.

So why are the finances so bad?

nike 1 · Jan 20, 2009, 10:24 PM

Since I was laid off at the end of 2007, I've had a hard time getting another job. When the unemployment compensation ran out, we were living on what she made alone, which wasn't a whole lot to pay everything. Anyway, I was a construction manager for the past 6 years. I made a high salary and great benefits. Since then, and due to the economy, construction has declined, leaving a whole lot of guys like me looking for work. The few positions in my career had hundreds of applicants, and others that I applied for I was basically told I was too over qualified. I worked here and there some temp stuff, but there wasn't much. I've been busting my butt since to try and make it happen again. I'm still doing the same. I don't know why, all I know is I try everyday. Finances were a definite problem for us.