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jsutherlin · Dec 8, 2008, 10:13 PM

I'm remodeling an 1965 California home with 100% copper plumbing. I'd like to add a small sink in the kitchen and the plumbing that is right below the intended area has what looks to be a 2.5" straight threaded cleanout. I'd like to remove the cleanout plug, extend outward 2 feet with ABS and attach a new ABS cleanout/drain inlet. Does this sound like it would work and are there any issues using a male threaded ABS adapter with a female copper receiver?
Thanks in advance.

massplumber2008 · Dec 9, 2008, 10:39 AM

Hi Jsutherlin:

No matter what you do the sink will not only need a waste line, but it will also need a VENT. If mechanical vents (AAV - air admittance valves) are allowed in your area then you may luck out and be able to install the AAV under the sink you want to install. It must be in the cabinet and readily accessible as these vents can fail and need to be replaced down the road... see pictures below. If AAVs not allowed in your area then you should run an individual vent from this new sink to the other vents in the house... let me know what you think here.

In terms of your question on the cleanout. I am afraid that BY CODE this is not allowed. Code requires that no cleanout be added into even if you add another cleanout in front of it.

You can cut an ABS sanitary tee fitting into the vertical copper pipe and then join the plastic fitting/pipe to the copper pipe using shielded transition clamps (see picture). This is legal and pretty easy to do if you have a sawzall with bimetal blade... Here, you would need 2 - 2" copper x 2" plastic pipe mission or proflex style mission clamps (trade names for these shielded clamps). These clamps allow flexibility an that you can fold the rubber back upon itself and slide the fitting/pipe into place and then flip the rubber back on and slide clamp over and tighten up all.

Anyway, that's all the code legal stuff! And I don't want you to take it lightly as that vent is essential no matter what. That being said, I have seen plenty of people connect into those cleanouts and most of those sinks are still running fine... so you decide what to do.

As a licensed plumber I really would prefer to see you do this right... ;)

Let me know...

MARK

PS: If you cut into ANY vertical waste stack be sure to support that stack using correct hangers, such as a RISER CLAMP, so the pipes don't fall/disconnect and get you killed!! It has happened!

jsutherlin · Dec 9, 2008, 07:52 PM

Thanks for the info massplumber2008. I have the walls down to the studs so I was going to run a vent up into the attic and tie it in with the existing vent up there. After looking at the plumbing again (down in a very cramped crawl space) I was able to snap a picture of the area I'd like to add on to. Thanks, Jim.

massplumber2008 · Dec 10, 2008, 04:32 AM

Hey Jim...

Thanks for the picture... but doesn't change anything I said above this. You are not supposed to connect into this clenaout, but instead you are supposed to cut a new 2" ABS wye into the line using the shielded clamps I mentioned.

Simply put, if you want to follow plumbing code then connecting into the end of that pipe is a no-no, but if adhering strictly to code isn't super important to you then see if a threaded ABS male adapter will thread into the cleanout and take it from there.

Be aware that some manufacturers made cleanouts that can NOT be threaded into with common fittings, so need to check that first... ;)

Good luck.

MARK

jsutherlin · Dec 10, 2008, 06:21 AM

Mark,
I definitely want to do it correct and to code... don't want to have to redo it later. Looks like I'll be cutting the copper pipe and replacing the copper wye with ABS and adding an ABS cleanout.

Thanks,
Jim

iamgrowler · Dec 10, 2008, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hey Jim...

Thanks for the picture...but doesn't change anything I said above this. You are not supposed to connect into this clenaout, but instead you are supposed to cut a new 2" ABS wye into the line using the shielded clamps I mentioned.

He can tie into this clean-out with a male adapter, Mark -- So long as he installs a new wye and end c/o, of course.

>shrugs<

I do it all the time on remodels and additions.

jsutherlin · Dec 28, 2008, 11:22 AM

Ok, I decided to cut off the old copper wye and connect up new ABS wyes and a new cleanout. I got the transitional connector recommended but the copper pipe's diameter is a bit smaller than the ABS so the ABS fits snugly in the connector but the copper is very loose. The guy at the hardware store said that's the way it is and just tighten down the small side first and you should be fine. I did that and it still looks a little suspect. I went back to the store and another guy at the hardware store said that I should use a threaded male copper fitting and a female ABS fitting. Are there special transitional connectors that are sized differently for the ABS and copper pipes. Since I've never used these maybe I'm just being overly cautious. Thanks.

Milo Dolezal · Dec 28, 2008, 11:30 AM

Our Code allows us to connect into existing Clean Out - as long as we install new clean out at the end of the pipe extension.

In this case, it allows us to remove existing Clean Out plug, extend the run, and make connection for new sink - just like poster planned on doing in first place. New clean out will be now installed at the end of new extension.

iamgrowler · Dec 28, 2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by jsutherlin

Ok, I decided to cut off the old copper wye and connect up new ABS wyes and a new cleanout. I got the transitional connector recommended but the copper pipe's diameter is a bit smaller than the ABS so the ABS fits snugly in the connector but the copper is very loose. The guy at the hardware store said thats the way it is and just tighten down the small side first and you should be fine. I did that and it still looks a little suspect. I went back to the store and another guy at the hardware store said that I should use a threaded male copper fitting and a female ABS fitting. Are there special transitional connectors that are sized differently for the ABS and copper pipes. Since I've never used these maybe I'm just being overly cautious. Thanks.

For a 2" copper to 2" plastic transition you need to use a Fernco or Mission CK-22.

massplumber2008 · Dec 29, 2008, 05:45 AM

Guy at the store is wrong. As I presented earlier, you need a 2" copper x 2" plastic mission clamp (or a CK-22 as growler posted). If this clamp is not available at local home supply store then go to the local PLUMBING SUPPLY HOUSE.. they'll have it for sure!

Good luck!

MARK

Milo Dolezal · Dec 29, 2008, 07:56 AM

Mark, it is a specialty clamp. I think he will have to go to more professional plumbing supply house. HD sells only the basic: 2"CI to 2"CI.

jsutherlin · Dec 29, 2008, 08:21 AM

Thanks everyone. I'm going to look up plumbing supply places in my area and start calling.

massplumber2008 · Dec 29, 2008, 10:05 AM

Milo... read my post#10... where I explain exactly what you repeated in your post hours later?? I also posted a picture of the clamp at post #2..?

I always appreciate the backup though... :p