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Deano321 · Oct 27, 2008, 11:43 AM

I started work for a company on 14/09/08 I filled in all the relevant paternity forms as told to by my manager. They have just got back to me stating I cannot have the time off 2 weeks paternity leave as I am not entitled to it. I might however be able to take 4.5 days as holiday that I will have acrued. The baby is due on 6.12.08. I have never asked to be paid and do not care if I am, I only want the time off to be with my wife as she is scared witless.
This is our first child, and I would like to spend time bonding with him (Jack), this means a lot as we had to have an abortion with our first baby as it was not developing properly and subsequently died.
I cannot find the legal documents to clarify if I can take the time off work, even unpaid. I was hoping theirs some legal boffin out there who would not mind looking into the small print on the legal side of this matter, as I cannot believe you cannot take time off, unpaid, to spend time with your child. My wife wants me to leave my job at the end of November and spend December with her and look for a job come January, that is how worried she is! I however do not think there will be many jobs around in January.
I will however take the time I am entitled to if allowed for my holiday of 1 week and ring in sick the second week if I am forced to do so as I believe this is wrong. When I went for the interview, with my then team leader ( she has subsequently handed in her notice and gone off sick lol ), I stated I wanted 2 weeks paternity even if unpaid and she stressed she could not see a problem with that and would look into it!

stinawords · Oct 27, 2008, 11:56 AM

Well being that you just started your job I really don't see them just letting you off for that period. You didn't get anything in writing when you were hired all you got was an "I'll see what I can do". I would also be surprised if you called in sick for a week and still had a job to come back to. You haven't even been with the company for a year yet (which is pretty standard for gaining vacation time paid or not for more than a couple days). I honstly think you are going to have to choose between your job and your two weekd off. I have kids I know what it's like so I know just like billions of other woman have gone through it she can make it too. I'm not trying to sound cold (which is probably how I am coming off) but I would really hate to see you loose your job when they already told you that you will have holiday leave available around that same time.

cdad · Oct 27, 2008, 12:26 PM

What size company is this ? If they have a HR dept then you may qualify under the family leave act.

Deano321 · Oct 27, 2008, 12:33 PM

Ok, thanks for the reply. Not the answer I was looking for but never mind. I am not sure if you are familiar with english law, as I am presuming by your wording that you are american.
Anyway, to answer your question, my family comes first not my job.
From what I have seen of this company in action ( 2 dismissals and a manager handing in her notice and then ringing in sick the next day). Things do not look good, if I take the time off, but I only get one shot at being a decent father, and I would quiet willingly sacrifice this job, as it is only a job. My family however are more than that! and will be there hopefully for more than 18 years to mature with me, which is more than I can say in this day and age for a job, or even a career.
This could well be the wrong attitude, but I like to view things as if I were on my dying bed and looking back. Could I honestly say, if I didn't take the 2 weeks to bond with my first-born. That I would be happy about it looking back? I don't think I would. So I will choose to enjoy my sons first 2 weeks of life, of which I will never get another chance again! Damn the consequences.

ScottGem · Oct 27, 2008, 12:34 PM

It is important, when asking questions that pertain to law, to identify the general area you live in. The Family Leave Act that Califdad mentions is a US law. Based on the way you entered the date of employment and your use of the term holiday, I suspect you are in the UK. So unless they have a similar law, you are probably stuck.

What you should have done, is get it in writing that you would be alllowed to take 2 weeks of unpaid leave as a condition of employment. But you didn't. So unless there is a law similar to the US' FMLA. I don't see anyway around it, except maybe to appeal to your direct supervisor.

Deano321 · Oct 27, 2008, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by califdadof3

What size company is this ? If they have a HR dept then you may qualify under the family leave act.

OH yes they have an HR department they are a european company, with branches as far as I am aware in every major city in europe. I will endeavour to ring my temporary boss tomorrow who gave me the news and ask her for the number of the person who relayed the message to her. Thanks for that. I do not expect any quarter from them as they seem quiet ruthless with a high staff turnover, but if push comes to shove, I will at least ask my local MP to look into it, and if necessary try to get the law changed. I think you should be entitled to 2 weeks at least, even if it isn't paid leave, the choice should be yours as a parent.

ScottGem · Oct 27, 2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Deano321

I think you should be entitled to 2 weeks at least, even if it isn't paid leave, the choice should be yours as a parent.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Companies, need continuity of their work force. Allowing a new employee to take 2 weeks off can have a deleterious affect on the workflow.

So I'm not sure this is a right. Its nice, but not a right. That being said, there may be something similar to FMLA.

Deano321 · Oct 27, 2008, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

What you should have done, is get it in writing that you would be alllowed to take 2 weeks of unpaid leave as a condition of employment. .

You are correct obviously, but under the circumstances I believed her sincerness in stating that she would do her best. I had the impression (stupidly) it would not be a problem. I couldn't see how it should be, as I have done the same in the past with a booked holiday of 2 weeks abroad, and had no problems with that.

stinawords · Oct 27, 2008, 01:16 PM

I don't really see the problem in general with having that much time off the only real problem I saw in your case is that you have worked there for such a short period. I too believe that family should come first (and I know this is getting slightly off the legal subject) but having a job is part of providing for your family and while I'm not going to try to estimate how easily you will survive and be able to provide with out a job. That being said it will obviously be up to you to choose what to do and being that you already expressed concern about the availability of a job in January I would start looking now to be ready for a switch especially given the high turnover rate it doesn't look like a place you will want to retire from.