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donner0224 · Oct 18, 2008, 04:40 PM

I read in this forum that you could pour a gallon of water down a shower drain and there should be water standing in the bottom if there is a p trap in there. In my case I can't see any water. This house is brand new. The shower is tiled. When you use the shower there is a bad smell coming from the drain, 2 licensed plumbers did work on my house and a licensed contractor built the concrete shower bases. Who is responsible for the p traps for the shower and what can I do?? It's concrete slab with radiant floor heat.

Thanks,
Donna

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 18, 2008, 05:04 PM

Plumber is responsible for for all plumbing(including p traps) and sewer gas smells. I would contact the plumber and have them come check out their situation. If this is indeed a new house, they should fix the problem with no charge to you. Good luck and please let me know how it turns out.

donner0224 · Oct 18, 2008, 05:17 PM

Thanks and I will let you know. I have another bathroom that I haven't tiled the shower yet. I want this problem resolved before I do that.
Donner

ballengerb1 · Oct 18, 2008, 06:29 PM

I can't picture a plumber working on a new home that would not install a trap. Most basic rule of plumbing: if you have a drain you need a trap and a vent. Your standing water idea only works if the trap is directly connected to the shower drain. This is not true for a tub or some showers that start with a 90 elbow under the shower pan.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 18, 2008, 06:44 PM

I would still have the original plumbing installer come and look into the smell you are getting.

donner0224 · Oct 18, 2008, 07:33 PM

The guy was a jerk. Showed up to set the toilet phlanges after the concrete trucks were starting to pour. I just don't get if the p traps are somehow there under the concrete and I just don' know it. I didn't see the rough in before it was covered.

Milo Dolezal · Oct 18, 2008, 08:32 PM

Yes... I cannot imagine not to have one ! It is Plumbing 101... Who was he ? Joe the Plumber ?

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 19, 2008, 06:58 AM

Lol

As far as the plumber setting closter flanges after the concrete had already begun to be poured, he shouldn't have been there at all. He should be setting the flanges after the concrete has already set up nice and hard. Sounds like he may not know what's going on, leaving the possability that he didn't install a trap. If both plumbers were licensed, one of them should be able to help you with your problem. Good luck

speedball1 · Oct 19, 2008, 07:11 AM

Hi Donner,

I read in this forum that you could pour a gallon of water down a shower drain and there should be water standing in the bottom if there is a p trap in there. In my case I can't see any water.

Did you remove the strainer and shine a light or stick a rod down there to see if it came back with water on it? There shoiuld be absolutely no reason for the trap to be anywhere but directlyunder the drain in new construction.. If you mealy peeked without removing the strainer go back and check again and let me know. You may have a case against the plumber if he left the trap out but I can't believe the job would pass the rough in inspection without a trap.
Regards, Tom

donner0224 · Oct 19, 2008, 09:02 AM

Thanks for the responses. Yes, I did remove the cover and shined a light down there and there is no water present. The guys that set the drains and made the concrete shower bases apparently did not put the traps in either. I'm so angry. This is a huge mess and I'm the one stuck with the big stinkin mess. My husband thinks it's our fault because WE didn't put the traps in. I'm not the plumber and not the guy who builds custom shower bases every day. I checked again in the shower that I haven't tiled yet and it's the same thing. Why is the smell really bad after you use the shower?

Milo Dolezal · Oct 19, 2008, 09:15 AM

If you indeed don't have traps, than you got mess on your hands donner0224. Sorry to say that. It is unpleasant situation which, unfortunately, will have to be dealt with. Absence of traps is great hazard to the occupants of the house. In other words, what you have is an open sewer in living space.

What puzzles me is that this is new house. It had to be inspected and signed off. I cannot imagine Inspector would miss absence of traps during rough-in inspection.

There is only one situation that comes to my mind: If house stands on slab, we usually put in 12"x12" plastic box called Tuff Box into which we lead our shower drain pipe. No trap yet. Now, concrete is poured around the box. When framing is done, we come back, break the box, expose the shower drain - and now - we install trap followed by Cast Iron drain head. We proceed with mixing up 1/2 bucket of concrete and fill in the hole that Tuff Box left in the slab.

If you indeed don't have trap than the plumber stubbed out for shower, didn't use the Tuff Box, and after framing was done, they just assumed traps were in. Shower pan guy has really nothing to do with it. He has no knowledge what was done before he showed up.

Enclosed is photo from one of our recent projects showing 2 Tuff Boxes. We always take photos of our under-slab rough-ins so we can be revisited later on when needed.

speedball1 · Oct 19, 2008, 09:24 AM

Why is the smell really bad after you use the shower?

Because a stupid plumber, and the even dumber inspector that passed the job, apparently neglected to install a trap in the shower. You have a direct connection between your shower and the city sewer allowing sewer gas to enter your home. This is a health hazzard to your family.
Time to get the authorities involved. I would contact both the Building Department and the Health Department plus The Better Business Bureau with your concerns. I would also demand a DWV smoke test to determine if any more fixtures were left unvented. If the plumber or his company gives you any static I would take them to court and sue for all repair costs plus punitive damages for your trouble. Please keep me in the loop on this. Shoddy work by any plumber reflects on us all. Let us know how we can help. Good luck, Tom

speedball1 · Oct 19, 2008, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Here is a typical under-slab plumbing rough-in from one of our recent projects. Please, notice those 2 black boxes. They will hold traps after concrete is poured. I hope this will better explain the process of installation.

WOW! You guys out in Cal. sure rough in a lot different the we do. What's with the lumber yard? (another silly UPC?) If you're going to pour a slab over the rough why not simply put it in the ground like the rest of us do in a warm climate. And about those black boxes, if they cover the tub or shower drains why not simply install the shower trap with a sraiser and the tub with a trap and raiser plus a tub dapout? Inquiring minds want to know! Have a great Sunday, Tom

Milo Dolezal · Oct 19, 2008, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

WOW!! You guys out in al. sure rough in a lot different the we do. What's with the lumber yard? (another silly UPC code?) If you're gonna pour a slab over the rough why not simply put it in the ground like the rest of us do in a warm climate. Inquiring minds wanna know! Have a great Sunday, Tom

I knew you would ask this question... :D

Here is what GC did: the slab required #5 rebars, too heavy steel to stay in place. So, GC laid this temporary 2x4 frame work which was used to hang the rebars from. First they poured foundations, then removed the "lumber yard", installed rebar grit, and poured slab on second pour.

Milo Dolezal · Oct 19, 2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Because a stupid plumber, and the even dumber inspector that passed the job, apparently neglected to install a trap in the shower. You have a direct connection between your shower and the city sewer allowing sewer gas to enter your home. This is a health hazzard to your family.
Time to get the authorities involved. I would contact both the Building Department and the Health Department plus The Better Business Bureau with your concerns. I would also demand a DWV smoke test to determine if any more fixtures were left unvented. If the plumber or his company gives you any static I would take them to court and sue for all repair costs plus punitive damages for your trouble. Please keep me in the loop on this. Shoddy work by any plumber reflects on us all. Let us know how we can help. Good luck, Tom

I agree 100%. This mistake should be caught by the attending Plumber, than the General Contractor, and the Inspector. It is almost impossible to believe it was noticed by any of them...

Milo Dolezal · Oct 19, 2008, 09:49 AM

Tom, my entire Response #12 got erased by somebody. The photo included in that response was moved up to my response #11.

Would that be you who is editing our posts ?

donner0224 · Oct 19, 2008, 10:30 AM

The plumber used 2x6's to frame a box for the shower drain. I later dug the sand out of the box (after the slab was poured and the house was framed and roofed.) I found abs pipe with a white cap on it laying horizontal in the hole apparently connected to the drain line. This entire project was done with all the inspections in rural Oregon. The plumber is not calling me back since I called him last wednsday.

speedball1 · Oct 19, 2008, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Tom, my entire Response #12 got erased by somebody. The photo included in that response was moved up to my response #11.

Would that be you who is editing our posts ?

Sure would Milo, Nothing's lost or erased when I merge back to back posts. I do this to clean up the page and save space. If you have something to add simply hit the edit button and add it instead of starting another post, Thanks tom

Milo Dolezal · Oct 19, 2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Sure would Milo, Nothing's lost or erased when I merge back to back posts. I do this to clean up the page and save space. If you have something to add simply hit the edit button and add it instead of starting another post, Thanks tom

My post #12 was additional info posted, and related as follow up, to post #11. You transferred photo but erased entire message. All was done as new message, containing new information. In other words, it was progress in my conversation with poster. I was not my intention to edit my previous message. Without the info, entire conversation becomes very confusing.

You've done this several times before in my other post. I would be great if you don't merge and let the conversation progress as posted. I think you should ask the poster before you do that.

PS: Do you own this web-site ? How are you associated with AMDH ? You can actually overwrite our posts ? Just curious...

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 19, 2008, 02:26 PM

I'm a bit curious about this also. I have noticed some of my post have been completely erased,(not accusing anyone) just wondering why it is that anybody can do anything with another persons post. Like I said, not to worried about it, just curious.

Back to the original question at hand. I agree you have a mess and there are multiple people at fault hear, tile guy is not one of them. I know you said it was a new house. Was it indeed inspected, or was there never a plumbing permit issued for the house. If so you are in a much bigger mess than you could ever imagine. I truly hope you get the problems fixed at no charge, and with compesation to you. Good luck, definitely keep us up to date.