[tiggerella]

My husband and I keep ending up in dire financial straits. In previous posts, I questioned whether this was luck, past relatives getting revenge, etc. and, with your help, began to really pay closer attention to what goes on between my husband and I.

Quite simply, our economic mishaps seem to peter down to one thing: a lack of communication. While he tells me that it's all my fault and I don't communicate our financial status to him, I'm starting to see that it's more a matter of I talk, he doesn't listen.

What compounds the communication issue is he insists he has a "photographoc memory", but even though he can give the conversation back to me verbatim, he doesn't see that he misunderstood.

Prime examples (but just the very peak of the iceberg):

Mother's Day and my birthday fall roughly one week apart, and he takes a 4 day fishing trip right in between. He always asks what I want for a present.
(Example 1) Last year, I told him "a girl's night out to a movie with our daughter while you're away". He handed me a $50 bill to cover it and went off fishing - but then saw there was $75 left in the bank account while he was away and picked up a pair of $69 boots for himself at a store near the fishing camp. I had told him before he left that there was a check for $72 written out to the phone company that hadn't cleared yet, but in the excitement of buying new boots, he "forgot" - and then gave me back the whole conversation including that mentioned check. (Meanwhile, having seen the debit on the online "pending transactions" screen, I had to put in the $50 he gave me and transfer every penny out of my savings account to cover the boots he'd bought. He never came up with the $50 for the night out once he got home, so my only present was a new flower garden he decided to build me, whether I wanted it or not, and which I have to weed, water, etc.)
(2) This year, my request was for a dinner out with our son, just back from college, his fiancé and our daughter at one of those Japanese restaurants that cooks the food right in front of you - our treat because none of them have a job at the moment, so they couldn't have bought presents anyway. Since he didn't like it the one time he went to one of these restaurants, I told him we'd do this while he was away on his fishing trip so he didn't have to eat things he didn't like. He fussed loudly about the cost of $100 for four to eat there (even though he'll often take us out to Applebees, which is generally about $125 for four), but told me to make the reservation. After the reservation was made, he went out and bought $100 worth of plants for my garden after I had repeatedly told him that I didn't want to add any more plants until next year so I could see what the bulbs I planted last fall were going to do. (He dug up some of those bulbs, which were STARTING to grow, in order to plant the annuals he'd bought, then thought his saying "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't think they were going to do anything because the tulips were already up and blooming." was going to make up for it. He never asked, or I would have told him that the lilies and irises come up later than tulips... ) Of course, because he spent the $100 I was holding aside for the dinner, I had to resort to more creative financing to cover the night out with the kids... :mad:

I've tried to get him to go to counseling with me to get him to understand why this is such a major stress factor in my life, but he doesn't believe in it and refuses.

I've gone to credit counselors, but unless he curbs his impulse spending, any budget I try to make is useless because he won't adhere to it.

I've tried praying to every deity I've ever heard of for him to finally get the point and stop spending money we don't have, but nothing happens.

Can anyone help me with this - even if it's just to tell me that, after 23 years of marriage, I should just give up and dump this bone-head because he's never going to change?

[fredg]

Hi, tigger,
At 64 yrs old, married for 29 years now (second marriage; 1st one ended in Divorce after 7 yrs), I have learned one important thing about marriage relationships.
It takes trust, caring, love, compromise, not arguing too much, and wanting the other person to be happy. It also takes not doing what I want to do sometimes, but rather doing what I know will result in my wife being happy at the time. She does the same also.
Prayer is the most powerful force in the World; if you have others praying for you, and you for yourself. But, and please don't take this as "religious", unless you are; we don't always know what God's Will is; and sometimes things don't work out the way we want, and in the time we want!
If your husband refuses to go to Marriage Counseling with you, that's a bad sign. He will NOT change any attitudes or habits, unless he himself, sees there is a need to do so.
Your husband definitely is not willing to compromise, or as you say, even consider that fact that he could possibly be wrong, in making money decisions.
After 23 yrs of marriage, I see two options you have. One is to do nothing, keep on going the same way; unhappy.
The other is to see a lawyer, get some professional advice. Just maybe, if you file for Separation (if your State has that), and he sees the papers, he might "wake up" fast; but again, maybe not.
If you cannot continue living this way, I would talk with a Lawyer. Find one from others' suggestions, who is reputable. Ask about the cost. I do wish you the best, and hang in there.

[J_9]

Why not go to counseling yourself? Sometimes even if the other spouse does not want to attend you may be able to benefit from the advice they give. It may help you learn how to deal with this situation in another way, which in turn, can change his behavior. I have been there done that.

My hubby did not want to go to counseling, but I was able to learn how to use situations to my advantage by going myself. It has taught me how to deal with his actions and respond in a way so that he eventually changed without knowing he did.

[valinors_sorrow]

Why not go to counseling yourself? Sometimes even if the other spouse does not want to attend you may be able to benefit from the advice they give. It may help you learn how to deal with this situation in another way, which in turn, can change his behavior. I have been there done that.

Very good point here and I would add that getting someone else to talk to him about it, another family member he respects, a minister, anyone who may get his ear may work.

I have gone that route with my spouse more than once successfully. We had a good laugh over how I was saying all the same dang stuff!

He apologised and told me he had made himself a "nag filter" that was not only inapproproiate but something left over from his terrible childhood.

Once in a blue moon, if I feel I haven't been heard... I ask him "okay, where is that nag filter again???"

Once in a while he calls me "nagatha" just to let me know he heard me too.


But Tigerella - what does this have to do with Psychics and Fortuner Tellers?

[JoeCanada76]

Can I ask a question. Do you have separate bank accounts? Do both of you work? Does he pay the bills? Instead of nagging and going on about his spending habits why arnt you thanking him for the things that he is trying to do for you. He is doing things for you and all you are doing is criticizing him. Do you ever thank him for the things he tries to do for you. Whether it is what you asked for or not, do you not think that a husband who makes a garden for his wife is a beautiful gift? He obvously enjoys treating and spending money on family and he does things that most guys would not do for a women. Yes, your right lack of communication is a very big issue. It is probably the way things are said, maybe you should change you approach. Maybe if he feels more appreciation maybe he will open up to you more or even listen to you. So, in what your writing you are saying that because it is okay for him to spend 125 dollars on his own family that there is something wrong with him not wanting to spend 100 dollars on other people? You are talking about something wrong with finances yet it is okay to take other people out for expensive dinners? Your talking about how you never wanted the garden that he made for you, but your criticizing him on how he is doing it even though you do not want nothing to do with taking care of it. That doesn't make sense to me. Your making it out to be all his fault but you need to sit back and think how your approach in this situation may effect some of the outcome of this situation. Just some thoughts to think about. Yes, prayer is very important. Whether religious or not. Prayer is very important and you just want your own answer to this situation instead of paying attention to how there may be another answer already in progress.

[tiggerella]

Thanks for all the responses in such a short time. I'll definitely be making use of them all - even the criticism from Jesushelper76. (And FYI, Jesushelper, I appreciate the thought behind the garden, but if it's supposed to be mine to tend, it would be nice if he listened to what I want in there to take care of instead of providing extra work... and I agree that I may not have made it through his "nag filter" to get him to understand that I don't LIKE annuals because they're just extra work. He admitted to me last night that his mother had always stated that perennials aren't as colorful as annuals - and just had assumed I would feel the same. Never assume... *grin*)

Having seen the responses before he got home from his fishing trip yesterday evening, I spent the two hours we had between his arrival home and my picking up our daughter at a friend's house to express that (1) I appreciated the gesture behind the annuals, but the extra money he spent caused issues with the bank account because I hadn't expected him to spend the money - and he confirmed he didn't check with me to see if the money was available before making the purchases. And (2) I also had pulled up bank records for the past 8 years for May, so I was able to show him all his "fishing trip" purchases - and the resulting overdraft fees for the week that he was gone because, for the last 8 years that he's been going on the trip, he hasn't once checked before spending money to make sure he had money to spend.

We've agreed that, when income tax comes in next year, he'll have $500 put aside for his trip in an account only he'll have access to. In the meantime, I'm going to work on locating a counselor who can maybe help me find ways of stating things to him that won't cause his "nag filter" to drop into place so that he hears and understands what I'm saying.

Thanks for all the help - though I'd still like a psychic to answer to see if they can tell me if this really sank in or if he was just paying me lip service and the "nag filter" was actually in place during our talk last night... *grin*

[valinors_sorrow]

Tiggerlla: I am glad to hear you are taking some positive steps. Keep up the good communication, and little by little progressive will be made...

And we don't need to be psychic to know that either!

[talaniman]

Enjoyed this post because it proves that I am not the only idiot in the world! Married couples must decide who does the books writes the checks pays the bills etc. Usually the "sensible responsible" one does this task, but without agreement and co-operation you could be wondering where the money goes. We have our own accounts and we have our own bills to be responsible for and it works pretty good and I thank God my wife always has enough left to cover my butt. Jokes aside though because I've seen a lot of damage done to marriages where the finances put a lot of pressure on the family. I think J9's suggestion that you go to counselling is an excellent idea because at least your working on yourself and that helps. Don't be so hard on hubby some men are brilliant but can't count once they get in the store.(women too,):cool: :)

[KariAndersen]

My husband and I fought for a long time about money... he's a saver and I'm a spender. He finally got fed up and made me start paying the bills!

Eye opener!! Now I knew exactly what we had and how much I needed to pay bills and now I stay in the budget because otherwise I will bounce checks and I don't want to "drop the ball" with my new bill paying job! LOL!

I also started my own business, so I'm learning about money and making it!!

[talaniman]

I like this suggestion maybe the husband would be more responsible if he had to pay the bills himself! A very interesting thought. But be prepared for all kinds of screw-ups though. When the lights go off or the phone is disconnected he may start listening to what you've been saying.:cool: :eek:

[dmeeu]

I will be married 30 years next month (to the same woman). People have asked me so many times how we lasted this long that I have been researching marriage. Tolstoy wrote in "Anna Karenina" that all happy familys are happy in the same way, but unhappy families are each unhappy in their own miserable way.

I liked that line so much, I have tried to identify the ways that happy families/marriages are happy. Beyond mutual love and respect, I have found that happy couples agree (or at least agree to disagree) in seven areas: Family, Children, Religion, Money, Careers, Sex, and distribution of duties.

I think Tolstoy meant that happy families always have those seven items worked out. Unhappy families are not necessarily unique, but they do each have their own combination of these seven items that cause their misery.

The divorce rate in this country peaked at 51% in 1981. It has abated slightly since then to 41%. I say slightly beause the numbers are now skewed by the number of people who set up housekeeping, live together for a few years, have a baby or two, and then go their separate ways. That is not tallied in the divorce statistics. With those situations rolled in, I am sure the divorce rate is as high as ever.

My advice to people young and old now is to look at your marriage/relationship and consider those seven items. If a conflict is there, it must me addressed or it will untimately ruin the marriage and you will become a statistic. My suggestion to Tigerella is to seek counseling. If your husband won't go, go alone. That problem is not going to go away by itself.

[kp2171]

my wife and I split up some accounts... though, given your husbands track record, he probably will grump about this too.

to make sure there is always money for critical bills, we have an account just for that. Water, energy, mortgage, loans, credit, and annual bills like car tags, tax fees, etc. we have an estimated average that is automatically deposited every month. Some months its too much, some months its too little (like when heating bills get high) but again, it all works out if you start with a little extra in there are don't pull money out when there is extra.

we have another account that is variable expenses. Food, gas, any other shopping that is variable. This account is harder to manage with two people. I handle the budget and the recordkeeping, and my wife informs me of any expenses she intends to make of this account beforehand if possible so that we can plan the budget. Its not a controlling her thing... its so that we can stay on track and on the same page. I have more time to manage it and she prefers not to.

she also has a third account. This is not at the same bank as the others. This is a savings account that gets a little money dumped into it every pay period. We started with just $50 a month, now we do $200. It builds up nicely when you're not looking, and we do not have access to the account unless we go into the bank. We both agree this is emergency money and isn't touched for common purchases.

I don't know your situation and whether you could do something like this. Having fixed expenses separated from variable has been a lifesaver... you never have to worry about the bills getting paid as long as you respect that money.

just something that's worked for us. If you cannot talk to him about it, it is going to make it hard to manage this. You both need to be on the same page. He's being insensitive and its not good.

[talaniman]

As KP says it takes a lot of co-operation and communication. Personally you should not be under stress from this as he doesn't co-operate or communicate, or listen. Keep your own money do your own bills and don't put any money in his account. Extreme but necessary to wake his butt up. The only way that happens is when he's broke and has no access to money. Bet he'll start listening when you stop co-operating and communicating.

[tiggerella]

Thanks again for all the great advice - and for those questioning why this is under "Psychics": I was hoping someone would be able to sense the mental reasoning for some of this, as hubby was in a car accident in 1992 and I often wonder if maybe some of our issues are due to scrambled circuits in his head... and a psychic might be able to tell me that... hehehe

[NeedKarma]

No psychics here (or anywhere).

[talaniman]

Psychic? I thought you said psycho!

[kp2171]

Call Me Know For A Free Question (732)920-3182 I Am A True Psychic

Then you know I'm going to ignore you. Maybe you should just pm the persons that you know will call you.