[reub]

Newbie Question:

Background:
My condo has a fairly open floor plan. A great number of outlets including all of the living room and dining room outlets as well as half the kitchen outlets and some bedroom outlets (those that share a wall with the kitchen) are on one 15 Amp circuit (15 Amp Breaker in the box).

We've found recently that we bump against this when running high current devices like an electric water kettle. I'd like to purchase a chest freezer and being limited by space, would need to put it in this area, but I'm concerned as to whether my electrical setup can support it.

Question:
I'm wondering if it's possible to upgrade that 15A breaker to a 20A? If so, what considerations would I have to make? Can I safely swap with another circuit that has 20A allocated to it or would that be an issue or code violation? Is this something that I can do myself or would I need a professional to do the work (I'm in Massachusetts)? If not, are there other options?

Thanks Much... - Maxed out in Mass

[Tev]

You cannot just swap the breaker, the wire run inside the walls for the 15 amp circuit is most likely to small to handle 20 amps.

[Stratmando]

# 14 needs to be protected by a 15 amp breaker, #12 would be needed for you to put on 20 amp breaker. If in conduit and panel has capacity, you could push or pull additional wires.

[donf]

Your opening words stop you.

According to the NEC, only a licensed electrician is allowed to work on wiring within a multi family building.

[reub]

Thanks for the responses. I'll make sure to get a licensed electrician to do the work if I move forward. Becore I do that, is there anyway I can tell what gauge wiring I have on that circuit?

[donf]

I believe that most condon use colored cable.

But in any case, a 15 amp breaker get #14 AWG.
A 20 Amp breaker gets #12 AWG.
A 30 Amp breaker get a #10 AWG.
A 40 Amp Breaker gets #8 AWG.
A 50 /60 Amp Breaker gets #6 AWG.

[Stratmando]

The electrician will likely carefully remove panel cover and if they are individual conductors, it should say on wire, if romex, he may compare the size of the conductor with a sample of #12, and #14.

[Washington1]

Your opening words stop you.

According to the NEC, only a licensed electrician is allowed to work on wiring within a multi family building.

donf,

What makes you believe the OP is living in a Multi-family building?

[Abyss777]

Most newer homes and apartments use romex solid copper wire. The type of wire will be marked on the outer insulating sheath stating 2 or 3 wire for singe or double pole breakers and the wire gauge. #14 gauge is 15 amp and #12 gauge is 20 amp.

[Washington1]

Please note that sometimes the lettering on wire sheath wears off. I would have an electrician check the gauge----if you can't read the writing on the sheath.

There are times I didn't have my measuring tool (Not strippers) on hand, and I had to look at the wire sheath in the attic to get a reading. Meaning: Because one area of the writing has worn off, doesn't mean every portion has.

Tip: There are occasions where cables aren't ran complete. You could have 12AWG ran from a 15A OCPD, yet continues in 14AWG to complete the circuit.

[donf]

Wash,

Paragraph #1: "My condo has a fairly open floor plan. A great number of outlets including all of the living room and dining room outlets as well as half the kitchen outlets and some bedroom outlets (those that share a wall with the kitchen) are on one 15 Amp circuit (15 Amp Breaker in the box."

Don

[Washington1]

Wash,

Paragraph #1: "My condo has a fairly open floor plan. A great number of outlets including all of the living room and dining room outlets as well as half the kitchen outlets and some bedroom outlets (those that share a wall with the kitchen) are on one 15 Amp circuit (15 Amp Breaker in the box."

Don

Ok, your point? Are you saying because it's a condo it's defined Multi-family?

[donf]

I have see and worked in Multi residences here in Virginia Beach. The smallest of which is a quads. The largest of which was 10 floors with multiple apartments.

Are you saying that there are single family condos? If so, please forgive my ignorance.

[Washington1]

I'm saying that it's an assumption to say that this is a multi-family dwelling with-out knowing if it's three or more dwelling units per NEC.

Hope this helps!

[donf]

Wash,

Now that you mention it, let me ask a question of you.

I understand the single family rules. From what you said above it appears that a Duplex does not require a licensed electrician. Does the restriction begin at three residences or apartments?

Also, a companion question, does a Motel require that an electrician be licensed?

[reub]

I don't want to distract from the discussion about licensing requirements, but I think I can settle one point: I am indeed in a multi-unit dwelling - it's an apartment building that was converted from a nineteenth century school actually. I'll assume that the Massachusetts code follows the national code in that I need an electrician to do all work.

I'm bummed because it seems the original builder (when the building was converted to condos in the mid-late eighties) seems to have cheaped out - both bathrooms, the living room/dining room and half the kitchen outlets (those not near the sink) are on the same 15 Amp circuit. I'd have hoped that at least they'd _wire_ it with a bigger gauge so that it could be updated, but I don't know if that's the case.

For me it means that to support anything else, I'd need to spend major money to re-wire half the house, which I just don't think is worth it... Bummer. Any of you bright guys have other suggestions? Or are my assumptions wrong?

[Washington1]

Wash,

Now that you mention it, let me ask a question of you.

I understand the single family rules. From what you said above it appears that a Duplex does not require a licensed electrician. Does the restriction begin at three residences or apartments?

Also, a companion question, does a Motel require that an electrician be licensed?

To clear the smoke, there is nothing in the NEC that says you can or can't do your own electrical work---these laws or (rules) are set by your jurisdiction (or AHJ).

Donf,

I really can't answer your question, because your area may have a different set of rules than my area.

Here is what our LAW says:

RCW 19.28.261 Exemptions from RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271.
(1) Nothing in RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall be construed to require that a person obtain a license or a certified
Electrician in order to do electrical work at his or her residence or farm or place of business or on other property owned by
Him or her unless the electrical work is on the construction of a new building intended for rent, sale, or lease. However, if
The construction is of a new residential building with up to four units intended for rent, sale, or lease, the owner may
Receive an exemption from the requirement to obtain a license or use a certified electrician if he or she provides a signed
Affidavit to the department stating that he or she will be performing the work and will occupy one of the units as his or her
Principal residence. The owner shall apply to the department for this exemption and may only receive an exemption once
Every twenty-four months. It is intended that the owner receiving this exemption shall occupy the unit as his or her
Principal residence for twenty-four months after completion of the units.
(2) Nothing in RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall be intended to derogate from or dispense with the requirements of any
Valid electrical code enacted by a city or town pursuant to RCW 19.28.010(3), except that no code shall require the holder
Of a certificate of competency to demonstrate any additional proof of competency or obtain any other license or pay any
Fee in order to engage in the electrical construction trade.
(3) RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall not apply to common carriers subject to Part I of the Interstate Commerce Act, nor
To their officers and employees.
(4) Nothing in RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall be deemed to apply to the installation or maintenance of telephone,
Telegraph, radio, or television wires and equipment; nor to any electrical utility or its employees in the installation, repair,
And maintenance of electrical wiring, circuits, and equipment by or for the utility, or comprising a part of its plants, lines or
Systems.
(5) The licensing provisions of RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall not apply to:
(a) Persons making electrical installations on their own property or to regularly employed employees working on the
Premises of their employer, unless the electrical work is on the construction of a new building intended for rent,
Sale, or lease;
(b) Employees of an employer while the employer is performing utility type work of the nature described in RCW
19.28.091 so long as such employees have registered in the state of Washington with or graduated from a stateapproved
Outside lineman apprenticeship course that is recognized by the department and that qualifies a person
To perform such work;
(c) Any work exempted under RCW 19.28.091(6); and
(d) Certified plumbers, certified residential plumbers, or plumber trainees meeting the requirements of chapter 18.106
RCW and performing exempt work under RCW 19.28.091(8).
(6) Nothing in RCW 19.28.161 through 19.28.271 shall be construed to restrict the right of any householder to assist or receive
Assistance from a friend, neighbor, relative or other person when none of the individuals doing the electrical installation
Hold themselves out as engaged in the trade or business of electrical installations.
(7) Nothing precludes any person who is exempt from the licensing requirements of this chapter under this section from
Obtaining a journeyman or specialty certificate of competency if they otherwise meet the requirements of this chapter.

[donf]

Wash,

Thanks for the clarification. I asked the question regarding Motels because I saw them listed in the NEC. To me a Motel should fall under the "Commercial" standards for electrical work, but I have no knowledge of where they actually fall. I'll call the City Department of Permits and Inspections on Monday and see what they can tell me.

[Washington1]

Wash,

Thanks for the clarification. I asked the question regarding Motels because I saw them listed in the NEC. To me a Motel should fall under the "Commercial" standards for electrical work, but I have no knowledge of where they actually fall. I'll call the City Department of Permits and Inspections on Monday and see what they can tell me.

I'm pretty sure you can't do your own electrical work for a motel--yet, who knows! Let us know what you find out for your area.