[LouPapa]

Is it better to use copper instead of pex if you are worried about leaks?

I'm in the process rehabing some apartments and the plumbers used pex instead of copper. I wanted them to run home-runs but they resisted and I ended up with pex fittings inside of walls. Now I'm reading about a class action lawsuit against Zurn for fitting failures. One plumber used Zurn and another used Viega.

I'm considering using copper in the future because it is tried and true but I like the advantages of pex: Cost, home-runs with no connections inside walls, resistance against freezing.

Does anyone have an opinion about what company has the best pex fittings and the best way to avoid all inside wall connections?

All advice and opinion are welcome.

[massplumber2008]

Hey Loupappa:

I am not very familiar with ZURN or WATTS pex systems... but am very familiar with the VIEGA pex system...

Viega pex should not be a concern behind the wall... if all work is installed/tested as required by local codes then you should be just fine here. For example, in my area we need to test all new copper water pipes to 125PSI... and viega pex to 100PSI...

Clearly the home run method of piping the system reduces any concerns about fittings behind the wall... and, in my opinion, is the preferred method for installing pex.

However, I also use a combination pex/copper system where I transition from pex to copper pipe BEFORE I stub my pipes out of the wall or connect to any shower valves, etc... and I have never had a leak doing it this way. The advantages here are that I get to use the normal copper rough-in and finish valves and trim that I have always used... I also get to hang my pipes more firmly and don't need as large a radius on the transitions from vertical to horizontal (at shower valve, for example).

Anyway... I think PEX is the wave of the future and will prove to be very great systems when all the kinks get worked out and the plumbers become more familiar with good installation practices. Practices such as transitioning from PEX to copper before connecting to a boiler or a hot water heater... etc.

I also wanted to note here that any plumbers not using the home run method to run pex need to OVERSIZE the main runs so that when they pick up fixtures on the run they still have appropriate volume for all fixtures (especially the shower) to work effectively! We treat 1/2" pex as 3/8" copper tubing, 3/4" pex as 1/2" copper and 1" pex as 3/4" copper. In fact, we run 3/4" pex to all fixtures except the toilet... guarantees volume available when using multiple fixtures of the main run. This, by the way, is because the inside diameter of pex fittings is greatly reduced compared to the inside diamter of the pipe... look inside a fitting sometime and you will see what I mean... ;)

Let us know if have more questions...

MARK

[ballengerb1]

When doing rehab PEX will cost you a great deal less than rigid copper. The cost of copper is high and the labor cost sweating and cutting the fittings is significant. Anything can fail including a PEX connector but fear of failure should not hault you in your tracks. I have used Watts Regulator with no problems.

[Milo Dolezal]

Here in So.California people still prefer copper over Pex tubing. There is something about doing it the old, hard, way. People have tendency to sleep better at night when they know that they have solid copper pipes over their heads...

[ballengerb1]

Old habits are hard to break. When gas was $2 a gallon I loved my 427 Chevy. Copper keeps going up and up while technology advances with new products. PEX is so easy to snake through rafters and joists I can't even think of using copper. I think the tubing is great but the connectors will prove themselves, or not, in time.

[truck 41]

Hello, We started using plastic tubing vanguard in homes around 1995, due to water corroding the copper below slabs. We were dealing with new homes that were just a couple years old with slab leaks, so we had to turn to the plastic overhead systems with maniblocks, and up to this day we have had no problems with these homes. And pex is even better than the original system we started with. So in 18 years of plastic water systems we've had nearly zero problems. Go with pex tubing and coper stubouts.----Zeke