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alwaysleaking · Jul 29, 2008, 11:49 AM

For the third time I have a hole in the pipe below my shower pan. Twice I've had it fixed by two different people. They both had to remove the lower tiles, the shower pan and replace. Ok, so I am done with having someone else do it wrong. I can figure out how to remove everything but the cement/concrete shower pan. How do I go about removing that? I am not a huge person. What do the professionals use? Any clues on why this keeps happening?

massplumber2008 · Jul 29, 2008, 03:53 PM

Hi ALWAYS:

Basically I use a sledge hammer to crack the floor out and then use a pick axe and leverage parts of the floor out until completely removed. However, I am a big guy which helps a lot here.

If you like you can always rent a small chipping hammer (see picture) from a local rental store. Try to punch through the concrete a little at a time until you finally get a good section started. Once you get a hole started, you want to break out the rest in small pieces working from the initial started hole and collapsing bits as you go.

In terms of the repeated leaking... let me ask you... is the pipe accessible from under the shower? Is this shower on 1st floor or in basement? What kind of waste pipes (PVC plastic or cast iron metal)? What kind of shower pan... membrane or copper pan? Let me know answers then can let you know how to stop this once and for all..ok?

MARK

Milo Dolezal · Jul 29, 2008, 05:13 PM

First: who is putting "holes" in your drain pipes?

You have 2 choices for shower pan: 1. build your own ( hot mop or PVC liner) or 2. install prefabricated plastic pan.

This topic has been discussed in this forum at length several times. See if you can Search it out. If not, get back to us and we will give you step-by-step installation process.

alwaysleaking · Jul 30, 2008, 08:08 AM

The shower stands on a slab subfloor. I can not get to the pipe without breaking through the shower pan. It is a mud/cement shower pan, repoured each time. I've had 3 new shower pans poured in the last 10 years. I live in Texas so we do have foundation problems but I haven't seen that to play a part in the problem.

The first time it drain pipe had a hole the shower clogged up and dirt came up. The plumber showed me the hole. I was stunned. This time the shower water actually leaks outside into the front yard as the shower is on an outside wall. Of course the boards and walls around the shower are damaged, water logged also. I do not know why the pipe has a hole. I will say the shower gets a clog every 9 months or so that must be removed and I've wondered if the plumber is causing the hole when removing the clog? The pipe is PVC.

massplumber2008 · Jul 30, 2008, 09:53 AM

Hey Alwaysleaking:
'
Pretty rare for a plumber to punch a hole in a drain pipe using a medium size (or smaller) cable machine. I'm wondering if pipes are actually cast iron underground and if they transitioned to PVC pipe to pipe up the shower?

Anway... sounds like you have pretty major issue with the pan/walls

I'd say you bust this pan out like discussed above... then come back here to discuss the correct way to install a pan and the walls for a shower, etc...

The shower WALL being on an outside wall will not only require a concrete backer board but also a WATERPROOF MEMBRANE BEFORE re-TILING CAN PROCEED... OK?

How old is the home? Any cast iron cleanouts or pipes/stacks coming out of the ground cast iron? If so, then most likely as I stated earlier... pipe underground at shower is cast iron (transitioned to PVC) and will need to be repiped/repaired/snaked... not exactly sure!

Let us know what you find and what you think here.. ok?

MARK

alwaysleaking · Jul 30, 2008, 10:01 AM

Thanks Mark,
That is exactly the type of help I need. Yes, I was wondering about the possibility of cast iron underground also, not sure. I will move forward on disassembling the shower walls and busting out the shower pan. It is built against an outside wall and against a wall assembled to separate the toilet from the rest of the bathroom. The two other sides are glass sides, one being next to a spa type tub. I can currently see the pipes to the bottom of the tub as I have removed it's side to see if I could get to the shower drain. I can't due to the short wall built to separate the two. It's tiled of course.
The house was built in 84, not that old. I am very unsure as to why it has always had so many problems. We think it's a curse. :-)
I'll keep you all updated. Thank you for the advice.
Oh and yes I understand about the waterproof membrane. I saw one go in during the last shower pan redo.
I didn't really think the plumber would/could have caused the hole with the snake.

Milo Dolezal · Jul 30, 2008, 10:15 PM

Agree with Mark. You need to follow proper shower pan installation procedures so you don't have to go through this every five years or so. Properly built shower pan will last for many years. We work on houses in built in 1920's with still fully functional shower pans.

Unfortunately, it is costly to replace shower pan. But, do it right this time. Hot mop shower pan is superior to PVC liner, but liner is fine when installed on bottom floor and on slab. But laying liner also requires some knowledge and experience.

When your next installer installs liner ( or hot mopped pan ), TEST it before you cover it up. Plug the drain with test plug, fill it up all the way to the rim of the curb and let it stay for couple of days. If no leaks, cover up and tile.

Don't rely on what installer says. These guys want to be done in no time and obviously are cutting corners. Take your time. Don't let him to push you. Taking your time this time maybe your insurance against doing the same pan replacement in five years.