[drbecker]

I was thinking about a new power saver device to cut back on my electric bill. We have 2 phase power. Does anyone know if you should have one unit for each phase?

[Washington1]

You asked how a power saver works. My answer, from what I know "it doesn't". Don't waste your money!

[Tev]

This item does nothing more than leech small amounts of power until a large amount is needed and it then discharges giving the illusion of using less power to people who don't know any better. The fact is that if you turn on your garbage disposal with or without one of these things your disposal is going to use the same amount of power and cost the same amount to run. It's just a difference of when the power came through the meter. Basically anything it provides now it stored up slowly over the last few hours and you already paid for it.

[tkrussell]

Actually these power saver gimmicks typically do work.

I may be seen as trying to argue with Washington, just trying to make a point, so bear with me.

There are two types;

One device lowers Power Factor. Using a power recorder such as a Drantz or RPM, you can measure this effect. I know I did it years ago. So the ads can be deceiving, as something is measurable. If I recall, the watts lower and was measured, so the utility meter does measure in watts and hours, Problem is with AC VA is used to size conductors, everything that carries current for that matter. Utility company leaves it to customers, usually, to deal with poor power factor.

If I put these in large supermarket stores I had then, what with the large inductive load getting .85-.88 {F due to magnetic ballasts and large refrigeation systems, HVAC etc. lower PF would have caused so much heat, since the system was designed for .8, the system could overheat, badly.

I seen PF with these down to .34 -.40

The savings effect in a home or small commercial is negligible.

The other device is basically a surge suppressor, the hype is it will stop transient voltages. The thinking that this is unwanted power and eliminating it will save money.

Again, the savings effect is negligible.

There may some certain set of circumstances that someone could save energy money, beats the hell out of me what that could be.

Electricians will understand what I mean, if someone wants to explain all the gory details, be my guest.


I have dealt with these devices since mid 1970. Every time there is an energy crisis, they pop up. So my point was I do agree with W, as usual.

When power companies do deal with PF, it is done with very large beefy equipment. How much can a device in a Bell box that fits in your hand do?

[ceilingfanrepair]

You mean 'dont work' right TK?

[tkrussell]

Uh-yuh , can't get there from here, don-cha know.

[drbecker]

Thanks guys, but here's the thing. I'm sure that most of your experience and therefore answers are based upon power usage in a normal American home receiving a pretty stable supply of electricity from the provider. I, however, live in a very rural area with extremes in my power supply. We suffer frequent power outages and constant power surges on the lines. (The number of things that we have had to replace is huge.) Appliances, electronics etc. MUST be protected with surge protectors. So, the way I understand that this product could help is by regulating my power supply, eliminating the extremes and at the same time and for the same reason helping with my bill. We are currently paying 0.42 US cents per KWH!! No typo - and we are looking at a hike again very soon. So if you have any different answers for someone in my predicament, I'd appreciate it!!

[tkrussell]

Well, now you have a different issue other than just energy savings.


First off, you mentioned 2 Phase. While there is a 2 phase system, it is rarely used, mostly obsolete, and was used for heavy commercial/industrial. I doubt you have 2 phase.

You should have a standard 120/240 volt Single Phase 3 wire Edison system. Just because there are two live lines does not mean it is 2 phase.

What exactly is the product you are looking at? Most of these energy savings devices, if they work, the savings is negligible.

Looks like your more interested in saving your appliances from damage.

A robust surge protector system may be the best. With one at the main breaker, one at a panelboard, and another at the load receptacle, if possible.

As far as energy savings, keeping things off when possible is the bset, obviously. Using the most efficient appliance available is second.

If the power quality is that bad, you may need to go with a more extreme solution, Such as voltage monitoring, with contactors that would drop out if the voltage is out of tolerance. UPS units for sensitive equipment.

These are just a couple of rough ideas off the top of my head. Is it worth looking into getting the utility to live up to whatever requirements they are subjectted to? You may want to check with the Pubilc Utililies Commission for your area to see what the utility has for responsibility.

Beyond trying to get the utility to provide better power quailty, any solution will not be just a quick fix.

[drbecker]

Wow! Lots of really good points. All of them addressed on a regular basis here by all of the consumers of power who are suffering the same problems. Really is 2 phase and really is as bad as all that! The PSC has been contacted and is aware of all the problems. Our provider has absolutely no responsibility for damages and is unable at this time to correct the problems. For them any changes will be down the road, long term answers to very big problems. Some things are just so big they can't be fixed over night. Anyway, all the surge protectors are in place, the products are protected. I have energy star appliances, gas stove, dryer. Nothing stays on when not in use (not even the TV on standby, these types of things are unplugged). I am really at this point concerned with paying for my power. I use approx 680 KWH per month and am looking at a $300 monthly bill! I'll move to solar/wind as soon as I can finance it! Thanks for all the great advice!