[tsila1777]

Why do clueless people make comments about things they know nothing about, is it because they have no life or because their lives are so miserable they just need the attention.

So when people act out, or make hateful comments on this board, is it because they crave attention even when it's negative. Are they that miserable?

I know people who are constantly mad, or upset and they have to talk about it. They have to tell every detail over and over, and if you suggest a solution, they always have an excuse why that won't work. It seems they don't want a solution they just want to be angry and talk about it. It wears me out and I don't know how to nicely tell them to "shut up and get over it already!"

I mean is it an emotional problem? Or do they just want attention?

[ChihuahuaMomma]

You know, I think most of it is just a need for attention. Sometimes, it's just misunderstanding or miscommunication. It really depends on the situation.

[Wondergirl]

Try being a counselor for a week! Work in a library at the circulation desk for a week! They're everywhere!

They're not going to go away, so what should we do about it?

[tsila1777]

Chihuahuamommma.

I have a long haired chihuahua, he's 10 years old and won't let me out of his sight. He loves to travel and is the best travel companion one could ask for...

The person, I am talking about mostly is my daughter, she calls me several times a day and usually starts every conversation with "Why don't..." or " Let me tell you what so and so did.."

I've been sick for a few years now and she knows I am supposed to avoid stress. Yet she constantly keeps me upset... I am learning the hold the phone away from my ear and only mutter a "and then what happened' or some such comment... I know she needs someone to vent to, but she never asked me how I'm feeling unless she wants me to babysit for two or three days.

she never calls to ask if I need help with anything...or just to see how I'm doing. Only to complain and fuss and gripe.

And my attemtps to tell her, I am supposed to avoid stress, I am supposed to be resting....doesn't seem to penetrate to her brain. My illnesses are all stress related, and most likely caused by her when she was a teen and through the years since. I am starting to resent her. One day I almost told her "all this is your fault anyway".


She also is under a lot of stress, but it seems every time I complain about something to her, she comes up with a similar complain. When I suggested she go to the doctor to get something for the stress and anxiety...she said she didn't want to be a 'druggie" I said I guess I am then because I have to take so many pill.

[Wondergirl]

What have you said in the past that improved her attitute and changed her conversation style?

[tsila1777]

Since she was a teen I have had very little influence on her. She is like her father, or a snapping turtle, once she gets her teeth in something it is impossible to get her to think on something else.

I can change the subject and she will just be quiet... I ask her what she thinks about what I said... she mumbles some answer and then goes back to her original subject.

I have fibromyalgia... I live with pain every day and the doctor's report is that I will have to live like this for the rest of my life...
She complains about being in pain and how much it is affecting her life... I say something like I can completely understand that and remind her of my condition. She doesn't want to hear that, she wants to be in more pain, and in worse condition and more serious circumstances and have more problems and need more help than anyone else. She shrugs off my condition... not that I want her sympathy, but I want her to at least acknowledge I understand pain... I also have congestive heart failure... and need rest and peace and quiet... avoid stress. She complains constantly of the stress she is under and how tired she is and on and on and on...

She's depressed... I can completely understand that too... She doesn't seem to want my understanding... she want pity I think. Pity will only encourage her to want more... I refuse to offer her pity... she has my understanding and my compassion... and I will always give her that and whatever other help she will accept.

But she does not realize, that after a phone conversation with her, I sometimes have to go to bed because the pain is so much worse because of the stress she just caused me. There have been times when I was so short of breath... from talking to her for so long... I had to use my breathing treatment.

She's over 30 years old... I have had 3 grandchildren here for about two weeks, not the same 3, most of them hers to give her some time to rest from this thyroid infections, and they are less trouble and stress than she is.

I feel I failed her as a mother. I don't understand her. I don't understand why she is the way she is... personality, spoiled as a child.. unhappy marriage... all of the above.

There is no answer as far as I can see. She refuses to do the things that would give her some relief... medication for the stress, depression, anxiety and panic attacks... no, she won't do that. Because she hates to take pills.

I personally love to swallow a hand full of pills a day, it's the highlight of my day... I do it what I have to do to be able to live as normally as possible. If it meant eating dirt, I would do it if it would make my life better, make me feel better.

Do people enjoy misery? Would they rather be miserable than to take a pill every day? I don't understand that.

[Wondergirl]

Pills aren't the cure for misery. Pills aren't a cure for anything. Pills just cover up what is wrong.

Has your daughter (or have you) met with a counselor to talk about her depression and to set goals to get past it? Learning yoga and practicing it, for instance, could be one goal. Yoga could help you too with stress and fibro pain. That would give the two of you something in common, something to share. Otherwise, it sounds like the two of you are in competition with each other to find out who is the most miserable and then to get validation of that.

[Choux]

You asked a question, and then pretty much answered it in your follow-ups.

My mother was a woman who claimed illness because she couldn't face the emotional demands of young children. It was, "My blood pressure"! "I don't want to worry!" I guess you see the picture. We kids made her sick! :)

I think you and your daughter are in a dysfunctional kind of relationship in which each of you wants to have a pity party, and the other refuses to attend!

I think you both can work this out with professional help... peel away all the layers of dysfunction and resentment and get down to where the true mother-daughter love still flickers. :)

It's worth it. :)

[tsila1777]

Pills may not be a cure, I would to God they were, but without them, I would be bedfast. (I was being sarcastic, I do not like to take pills either. I hate it, but I know how I will be if I don't take them) If something can make your life better, why not do it? Pills, properly prescribed by a professional doctor of course or Yoga. Yes, if she would do that. I have my 'exercise' routine.

I don't want pity. Truly, I don't, I just want understanding, not from people on this board so much, but from her. People think Fibro is all in the mind, not a real illness. Maybe I want to see some honest feeling from her toward someone besides herself. Maybe I want I know that she loves me, and not just for free babysitting. I call her 'baby' and 'sweetheart' I say "I love you," she mumbles I love you too.

Yes we need help. But she refuses any suggestion I make about anything. She doesn't want my advise, just my ear and my open door to her children. She says she needs to vent, I let her vent, but I don't actually have to listen to all of it do I?

I don't mention my 'condition' every time, only once in a while to let her know I understand what she is going through. Am I the only one who thinks understanding is better than a pill or yoga or therapy?

I don't tell her about my condition to get her pity, but to let her know that I understand... understanding is so important... to me. Even my dr. said, Tsila, if you say the sky is blue and I am the only one in the room that believes you how would that make you feel? It would make me feel validated.

I am in counseling and have been for years, as for my daughter, she would never dare step into a counselor's office. I love my daughter, but I really don't like her very much at times. She put me through hell, and I tried my best to keep her from marring that boy, but she would not listen to me. Now she calls constantly complaining about how badly he treats her. What am I supposed to do. Say, oh honey, I'm so sorry! I don't however say I told you so either, I think I did once say I tried to get you not to marry him. I guess that was an I told you so.

There is a difference between wanting pity and needing understanding. I need people to understand that I can't stand any more stress. The doctors have told me, medical doctors and psychologists have told me "avoid stress!"

They have not however told me how to do that. One told me to learn how to say no to my daughter when she wants me to babysit because she is tired and they are getting on her nerves.

It took a long time, but I finally learned to do that, sometimes, not enough.

[Choux]

I hate to see you suffer so much... I think when one has problems of different kinds it is important to find something to do that brings pleasure. :)

One thing I do is have my Home Care Aide take me outside in my wheelchair to enjoy the day. It means a lot because before she was assigned, I hadn't been out of the house in 6 months, basically all winter. What a drag! We sometimes talk a little, I might read in the sun, yesterday, the Handyman's son came over with the family's Chihuahua(sp?) and I had a lot of fun petting him... he was so cute. I have a cat that is bigger than little Paco by far. Lol I really get a chance to enjoy nature, I live in an apartment complex around a natural pool, birds and wildlife are around. (Management has chased away all the Canadian geese, for some reason. :( )

Anyway, you need to have some fun, *what is fun for you*. Nobody can stand misery so much of the time.

I was lucky, my ex-husband was a Christian Scientist, so I learned tactics to cope with pain. I use that today. I also studied Buddhism and learned so much about managing suffering from that path.

Babysitting for your daughter's children is such a positive for your daughter... why she isn't grateful for that I have no idea. Thanking and praising you for your wonderful service is the least she can do for you.

Life is to be enjoyed and our goal in life is to find happiness no matter our circumstances.

Best wishes to you,

[tsila1777]

I once had a patient in a wheelchair, a young woman not much older than me at the time; she loved for me to take her outside. You just brought back such a precious memory. Thank you.

I was a CNA for 20 years; I loved it. That's what gives me pleasure and makes me feel better, to help people. Babysitting with my grandchildren does too. I guess my frustration is that I can't help my daughter, really help her, because she won't really let me except to baby-sit and use me to vent.

I try to get outside myself, I love the outside, but I tend to fall down a lot when I walk, lol, so I don't try it unless someone is with me. (well actually, I do sometimes, but my husband doesn't know that shhhhhhh).

I hate my wheelchair, but I can't use a cane or crutches. I hate being seen in it, and it doesn't like going over the yard. My side walk is to high for me to roll off from by myself, it's hard for me to handle the wheelchair, but once I get to the drive which is very long and mostly smooth I can manage it for a while. I have to always remember that I can't go to far because I have to get back home. It's hard for me to remember that.

I love to sit on the front porch and watch my birds, I have some that nest in a flowerpot on the porch, they come back every year to that same pot. This year I had to put it out when I saw them buzzing around looking for it.

I have hummingbirds, and a family of redbirds. It was so cool when they were teaching the babies to fly one landed on the rail of the porch and sat there for a while. I had never seen a baby redbird before, it didn't look like a redbird, but the father landed beside it. They, mom and dad, spent some time teaching two of them, and I got to watch. Now I see the babies, still with a lot of brown, but beginning to turn red and their tail feathers are getting longer, they come to my feeders.

It's so cool to see them as babies and watch them grow up and have them visit my feeders. I feel like a proud grandma. Well, I am a proud grandma, but I mean of the birds.

The baby wrens that nested in my flowerpot come back to the porch also, I think they are looking for their mama.

I have several bird feeders to accommodate different kinds of birds, and then there are plenty for the ground feeders, mourning doves... I keep my hummingbird feeders out until early winter and put them out early spring.

I do have some house plants, but my flower beds, wildflower meadow, shade garden, cactus garden are a mess, and can't spell the ones that love the sun and come back every year, they are doing well, but the others make me sad. I had such plans when I moved to this mini farm... But I do have lots of windows I can watch birds from any room in the house.



And from the back deck, I like to lay in the sun, it helps the pain, and watch the birds, and squirrels and occasionally see deer in my sister's veggie garden.

I have a wonderful husband who takes good care of me. We both love to travel and we have plans to travel a lot more as soon as he retires, and we get the AC fixed in the RV. I don't intend to give up on life, I just don't want my daughter too either. I tell her, in 5 years, your baby will be well old enough to take care of himself. Look at how fast the last 5 years have gone by, you had better enjoy them before they become teenagers.



We intend to take some grandchildren with us the two oldest girls want to visit the Grand Canyon... the two boys ages 6 and 7 are just too much for me to handle both at the same time... my two step granddaughters are easy enough.



Thanks dear, I am so glad you have a good CNA who will take the time to take you outside for some sun and fun. Some just 'do' the job, while others enjoy it and go above and beyond. I wish I could still do it, but then I also got to close to my patients and when I lost them... one was almost like a mother to me. I used to break the rules and take her to the pet shop and flower shop in my car because she loved it so much. My job was at risk and my insurance too I guess, I don't what would have happened if she had fallen down... but she never did. She loved it so much... we got away with it for two years... then she died.

Life is so precious, my daughter is young, I don't think she enjoys anything. She is so unhappy. I try to take as much as I can from her, but there is a point when I have to take care of myself too. She should understand that. I'm still young myself... only 52.. I have years ahead of me, but I need to take care of me, so I can enjoy the rest of my life. And my husband, who by the way is not her father, he's my third husband and the only one who has treated me with any respect or love or care. I want to be healthier for him.

If as the doctors say: stress is what caused the fibro…then stress would make it worse right? Therefore, to avoid stress would make it better, one assumes. My daughter-in-law is more considerate of me than my daughter is when it comes to helping me out. She comes over and helps to clean my house, do laundry. She gets on her hands and knees and cleans my kitchen floor. I tell her, I have a mop, and she says this is how I do mine.

She will call; ask me how I am feeling today…if I say this is a good day. Then she asks if I want to keep my grandbaby 8 months old. She tells me her oldest daughter will stay with me to help take care of her.

Anyway, thanks for the memory, and thanks for the understanding. I do try to enjoy life as much as possible. I am glad you have someone to help you. We are both nature lovers, isn't it wonderful? Sorry about the geese, I bet they were awesome.

Peace and love,
Tsila

[linnealand]

the person, I am talking about mostly is my daughter, she calls me several times a day and usually starts every conversation with "Why don't..." or " Let me tell you what so and so did.."

I've been sick for a few years now and she knows I am supposed to avoid stress. yet she constantly keeps me upset...I am learning the hold the phone away from my ear and only mutter a "and then what happened' or some such comment... I know she needs someone to vent to, but she never asked me how I'm feeling unless she wants me to babysit for two or three days.

she never calls to ask if I need help with anything...or just to see how I'm doing. Only to complain and fuss and gripe.

And my attemtps to tell her, I am supposed to avoid stress, I am supposed to be resting....doesn't seem to penetrate to her brain. My illnesses are all stress related, and most likely caused by her when she was a teen and through the years since. I am starting to resent her. One day I almost told her "all this is your fault anyway".


She also is under a lot of stress, but it seems every time I complain about something to her, she comes up with a similar complain. When I suggested she go to the doctor to get something for the stress and anxiety...she said she didn't want to be a 'druggie" I said I guess I am then because I have to take so many pill.

I was amazed while reading your words. My sister (age 25) is exactly as you described. I have been searching for years to find out if this kind of behavior has a name, and I still don't know what it would be called. I think it has something to do with anxiety / OCD type behaviors, and it could even be some type of narcissism. I have found that anytime we talk, it's all about her - some new drama, someone she thinks has wronged her, something in life that's all wrong, and it's never, ever her fault. All of my advice has to get repeated and repeated and repeated as she asks the same questions over and over and over again. She never, ever seems concerned about anyone else. I can't remember the last time she asked me about how I'm doing or what's going on in my life. At the same time, I'm her older sister, and I've always been the "older brother" to her, too - I want to protect her, and I want to give her good advice to keep her from making bad mistakes in life.

I don't know if this is the case for you, but with my sister, if I say anything she doesn't want to hear, no matter how mild, she can be absolutely vicious. She can be the meanest thing I've ever seen outside of television. She can turn on a dime, and then all of the complaining becomes about me, into the ears of anyone who will listen. This has been going on for as long as I can remember, but sometimes she's so sweet that I forget that I have to treat her almost like she's sick. At this point, I have as little contact as I can with her.

Both of our parents are sick with serious diseases. My mom was diagnosed with a degenerative skin and muscle disease (she seems to be getting much better with her treatments, though), and my dad has prostate cancer that has spread to the bone. My sister is incapable of acting as people should with them, being easier on them, or showing that she really understands how important it is to keep them on a low-stress plane.

I'm sorry to hear about everything you're going through. Well, as of this post, concerning some of your daughter's "odd" behaviors, you're not alone. I have it in my life, too.

I really hope we can find an expert here that might be able to identify what these things are about, what we can do about them, and what they might be called.

In the meantime, stay strong and keep yourself happy! Best wishes.

[tsila1777]

Oh thank you so much for posting, I really thought I was alone and no one understood. I was not on here to have a pity party... I just thought her behavior was odd. Yes, if I say something she does not like, or give her a 'lecture' she can get very angry. There have been times when she has yelled at me, told me she hated me, hung up on me many times, and later I heard she threw the phone. She can be very mean and hateful to her kids too, except for the 'baby', that's so cute, he's 6 years old spoiled rotten and gets on my nerves after only a few minutes. He's the only one of her three children she seems to care about.

Honestly, the way she complains about her kids, there have been times when I worried that she would do something bad to them, just to get them out of her way. That is narcissism; there was a TV show where the woman wanted a man, who did not want kids, so she shot her kids because she wanted that man, one of the kids lived to testify against her. It was a true story. They called it narcissism.

She can be sweet too, sweet as pie, and she says she wants us to go out as we used to, have lunch go shopping... but I cannot walk through a store. Lunch with her, depending on her mood would be nice. There are times we can laugh together and have a good time. I wish so much that she was always that way... what a wonderful daughter she would be.

I know her thyroid problems are real, most of the women in our family have them, I try to tell her, it will take some time to get it straightened out then just stay on your synthroid and get your blood tests regularly and your can live a normal life.

She responds. "I hate blood tests, I hate having to take a pill everyday, I hate feeling this way. I'm so tired. I hurt all over."

I know Sweetheart, I have been through it, I have had it for 20 years. But there are just some things we have to do, and if you will do it, you will feel better. It will take a little time, but you will get to the point to where you do not feel this way. As long as you take the meds everyday, you will feel normal. I did, I raised two children alone, worked two jobs and took care of household stuff... because I took a pill everyday, and had no other choice. It did not cure me, but it took care of the symptoms. It regulates the thyroid to work properly, and I still have to take it everyday. My daughter has been fortunate not to ever have to get a job or work outside the home, but she “gets to stay home with her kids”. I would be a great pleasure for many women to have a choice as to work or not.

She does not appreciate it; instead, she complains that she is stuck here with the kids.


Sometimes I will tell her about my day...I fell again today. I was trying to fill the birdfeeders and just started to get that dizzy feeling, I held onto the bird feeder, but it isn't very secure so I went around in circles, I don't know how many times and then I hit the ground, on my knees first, and I just kept going, landing on my back staring up at a beautiful blue sky.. I ended up on one side of the feeder and the bag of seed on the other. If anyone had seen me, I guess it would have looked like I was trying to pole dance. That would have been one for the funniest home videos. Laugh.

Silence.

Are you still there?

yeah.

Sometimes I want to scream "baby the house in on fire and I'm trapped in the bedroom, the flames are licking at the door!", just to see if she would answer me or respond with something besides silence, or yeah. I've even asked her, 'what do you think about what I just said?" She seems bored and comes up with something and then she has to go. Talk to you later, bye.

I understand how you feel, but you do understand you have to take care of yourself too. With so much on you right now, with your parents, you cannot give too much of yourself to your sister. I am so sorry to hear about your parents...I lost both of mine...my dad was 104 when he died 2 weeks before his birthday. My mom died because of a car accident. That was a shocker; none of us took it very well.

I am glad your mom is getting better. I pray she continues to get better and I pray you Dad gets well too. One of my sisters had colon cancer, in the 4th stage, (there's only 5 stages I think)...they gave her 6 months to live maybe a year with treatment. That was 4 years ago and she's cancer free and can out shop me. She has more energy than most people do at her age 62...She is 10 years older than I am; and looks and acts 10 years younger.

There is always hope and she had faith in God for healing. She did have the surgery and the chemo, and did what she was told, but she also believed God and the doctors were amazed not only that she lived but that she is completely cancer free.

I know bone cancer sounds bad, but if you believe in God, God is a Healer. My sister looks at me as if, God healed me of cancer, why don't you 'take up thy bed and walk?' I am believing, but then she also admitted, if she had been in a lot of pain, (she didn't have any pain until just before they found it and then none except for the surgery) she said it may not have been so easy for her to believe. Extreme and constant pain does make it hard to believe you are healed and whole.

Anyway, I so glad, not that you have the same problem plus much more, but that someone understands what I am talking about with my daughter. I thought I had failed her as a mother and spoiled her when she was little, causing her to be this way. Now, I do not have to feel guilty.

I do hope someone reads this and tells us how to handle them. I cannot avoid my daughter, I have to take care of those babies, one is 13 and the other is 8 then there's the little prince. I don't worry about him. To her the 13 year old is...exactly as I described my daughter...but she is actually just a normal teen, who seems more concerned for me than my own daughter. She does not act 'that way' over here and she has been here all summer. The oldest son is sweet and so good looking...but he gets little attention or praise from her...he's the one she has to 'deal' with because at 18 months when the prince was born, he was pushed away and ignored I guess. He developed some problems. Acting out and stop maturing emotionally...at 3 he was still at the emotional age level of 18 months. Up until then, he had developed faster than other kids at his age had. However, it is not her fault...no way...she has many excuses to prove it was not anything she did or said. The baby prince cried all the time with colic, and she was so tired................

Sorry, I did not mean to get into all that. One thing I do know, you cannot help or comfort someone who does not want help or comfort. She seems to enjoy the drama, my husband cares about her but he calls her the drama queen. He hates that she gets me so upset at times.

I hope there is someone who knows about this and can give us advise on how to deal with them.


I will be thinking of you and your parents and praying for their full recovery. Take care of yourself.

Peace and love,

Tsila

[linnealand]

Tsila, your posts are really touching. It seems like there is so much going on, and it's at times like those that we really hope to count on our relationships. Sometimes it just comes down to relying on the strength and wisdom within you because "real life" stays the same as it always was.

My dad is a real life toxic narcissist, but I've always stuck by him. I wonder if my sister is the way she is because she internalized some of his behaviors. He was never diagnosed as such, at least as far as I know, but my family has done lot of research on narcissism, and there is just no other way to describe him.

Our family had a lot of high points, and some low ones too. Most families do! I have tried to get my sister into therapy on many occasions. When she was younger, I tried to convince my parents that she needed counseling and probably medication, too. My dad said, "not my problem." now that she's older and on her own, I feel like it might even be too late for her to change.

The problem with narcissism is that very few people, if any, are ever "cured." I keep hoping that it's anxiety related. I do think that a lot of it comes from the fact that she wasn't taught that life can be tough, and that it's not a bad thing. Many people could consider her spoiled. At the same time, she is incredibly gifted, beautiful and charming. I don't want her to sell herself short in life because of some behaviors that I keep thinking might be able to be corrected by an expert.

Yes, let's keep hoping that an expert will read this thread and be able to provide us with some possible answers!

Getting your daughter's thyroid issue under control will improve so many things for her. As I'm sure you know, the thyroid can affect all kinds of things in the body. I hope she starts feeling better as soon as possible! My mom has had a thyroid problem for 35 years, and she has it perfectly under control. Like you said, it's something that you just have to take care of. There's no reason not to. I'm sure you thank your lucky stars that there are medications to balance it!

104! That's amazing. It certainly bodes well for your own genes. I'm sorry to hear about your fall, but it's good that you can laugh about it afterwards. What you said about what you believe your daughter might be capable of is upsetting. I pray for those kids, and I wish I could tell you that I know what you should do about it. They should always be protected from harm.

I think my parents are going to be okay. My mom is doing much better than before, but my dad has a long road ahead of him. He has already had surgery, but is going to be starting radiation soon. Then they'll see what the next step is.

It's true that faith can do wonders, and it's also true that you have to take care of yourself in every way. I don't know if this is something you'd be interested in, but I have been listening to all kinds of Deepak Chopra audio books, and his wisdom has done so much for me. He's an extremely respected endocrinologist in traditional western medicine, who has also done a lot for mind and the body healing. My mom loves the books, too.

I wish you well in every way, and I am glad that this talk has been meaningful. My prayers go out to you!

[twinkiedooter]

Tslia - My mother was an RN for many years and had a phrase for people like your daughter it was: she enjoys poor health. My mother was a nurse for over 50 years and would run into this type of personality all the time. The very fact that you are a loving, caring individual (from what I have read above also a very sensitive person also) your daughter has a "built in audience" as well as a captive audience when she calls you up to enjoy her poor health and have you listen ad nauseum to her ills and woes. May I respectfully suggest that you get an answering machine and turn it on when you don't feel like listening to another "organ recital" from her? This way you are not being rude to her but letting her know that you aren't taking calls right now. It could also lead to less stress in your life and let you gain some much needed inner strength to fight your own illness.

linnealand - Have you listened to any of the Dr. Wayne Dyer audio books as well as the Deepak audio books? I found Dr. Dyer to be really what I needed, especially some of his latest books. You can borrow them from the library or download them from the library if your library subscribes to the Ebook or Audiobook system. I made CD's of his books and listen to them in my car going to and from work. I can listen to them again and again and gain fresh insight into life.

[linnealand]

Twinkie, I think your contribution was fantastic. Good advice!

I have listened to a whole bunch of wayne dyer's audio books, and I love them. I just downloaded four more, which I can't wait to dive into. I know what you mean about listening to them over and over again. Their books are thick with wisdom, and I find that I gain more every single time I listen to them. I put audio books on my iPod and listen to audio books and podcasts while I'm making dinner, cleaning the house, walking through the city... everywhere. :) I am an avid reader of books in general, but it's always nice to be read to. Have you listened to living beyond miracles? It's a lecture with both chopra and dyer at the helm. I think their attitudes are wonderfully refreshing and deeply healing. My favorite audio book by deepak chopra is magical mind, magical body. It's a 6 cd set, which I believe is now out of print. They have a single cd with the same name, but if you can get your hands on a free version of the original, I highly recommend it. Thanks!

[twinkiedooter]

Linnea - heard both sets of the Deepak and Dyer CD's you refer to. I also have downloaded these audio books from the P2P download services for free.

Tslia - I really think you are way too sensitive and caring person to be "dumped" on every day by your daughter. She does not truly appreciate what a wonderful person you are. I am sorry for your physical ailments as fibro is an insidious disease that just does not take a holiday EVER. Please devote more time to YOU from now on and concentrate on you feeling better as you deserve to feel better.

[tsila1777]

:) Thanks everyone for all your kind comments. I have not heard of either author you are talking about, but I intend to search the Internet and learn more about them.

I have so many books in line to read already, it would be nice to have someone to read to me. I get so sleepy when I read. I am also reading the Bible through in one month. I have a new version... not new version excuse me, it's a called a powerpoint, where the main thoughts are in bold letters, for example it basically skips over the begats... it's all in there but if you only read the words in bold it helps you to understand it better esp. the old testament. I learned so much so far from what I have read.

I love to sit on the porch and read, then watch the birds and listen to the silence and hope the phone does not ring. I cannot help myself from answering it; maybe this time there is a real problem, maybe one of the children. I just cannot let it ring long enough for the answering service to pick up. I try to, but then I grab it before the service can get it. I just realized if it is a real problem she would leave a message or call back. Also if I don't answer, as she knows I can't drive, she may just come over to see if I've fallen and can't get up. Lol

Do you think narcissism could be inherited? I do not know of anyone else in our very large family, except a niece that seems to be that way. I do have one sister who is just plain hateful.:( She will listen and give advice, then go and tell everyone what you said and add to it.

I have 9 sisters, one died the same year my nephew was killed in a car crash. Does it seem things happen in threes? That same year my son was in a horrible crash, he was in the passenger's seat, but the driver and his brother were both killed. My son said he could hear the one in the back, the birthday boy, making sounds, but my son was trapped in the car and had to be cut out, Jaws of Life.

I thank God he was not hurt, just a quick trip to the hospital to be checked out. I cannot imagine how that poor mother felt to lose both her sons like that. I felt guilty for being glad my son was not hurt, I felt so bad for that poor mother. I know it's only natural be feel happy your son lived, but I just had such compassion for her, I didn't know her, but I don't know how she survived it. My son did not attend the funerals; I guess he felt guilty too.

He is so strong.

He worked at a restaurant when he was younger and was closing up, he had to take the money to the bank, he went out the back door and a man with a hood held him up at gunpoint. My son gave him the moneybag, and then the man hit him in the head with the gun, knocking him unconscious and causing a concussion.

He has been through so much and seems to get pass it with all so well. I hope he is not just keeping it all inside. He is married now for 4 years and has a new baby girl, his first and he seems so happy.


I raised them both, how can they be so different? He never complains about anything, just normal things, I should say, the heat, having to work late, a headache occasionally.

Maybe the difference is my daughter was spoiled, my daddy spoiled her rotten; you said your sister was spoiled. My daughter is constantly complaining that 'it's not fair'... I tell her life is not fair. I think she is finally giving mental consent to that, but I do not know if it is sinking in yet.

I pray your dad does well with the radiation. I pray it does not make him sick. My sister always felt bad for a few days after. Her hair was very thick and she lost some, but not really enough for most people to notice. She did lose her eyebrows and eyelashes though. How odd.



Such a nice and pleasant group of people, my love and sincere appreciation goes out to all of you. I hope you all have a wonderful day, and I pray you each get a wonderful surprise, something special you have hoped for but never expected to receive. Something to bring you joy for years to come. God bless you all.



Love and peace
Tsila

[linnealand]

Hello again! I am not really sure that what they are displaying is full-blown narcissism.

I know that in my sister's case, she has anxious tendencies that also bring out some obsessive behaviors. I feel like that's what might be at the root of her repeating, repeating and repeating her questions over and over again. It feels like she over-thinks all kinds of things, and then she gets stuck in them.

When it comes to romantic relationships, she keeps picking guys who play lots of games with her, and then she bases her emotions on unrealistic expectations of how they should be with her (i.e. she wants to see them falling for her right away, and even thinking from the beginning that they should get married one day). Also, she doesn't have healthy coping mechanisms to deal with stress. I don't know if this is also the case for your daughter, but I would be curious to know if she exhibits the same symptoms.

Just in case we do get our expert, I'll include a couple of other particularities that might be related to my sister's situation. The first is that she almost always late (even by a couple of hours), which is often related to having to find the right clothes, look very pretty and generally get ready. The more important the event, the later she is likely to be. She might even miss a flight because of it. We are all big travelers, and she packs to the extreme; a weekend getaway might mean 60-80 pounds of luggage.

I think one of the key differences that are used to identify various psychological disorders comes from their emotions. For example, some people are good at experiencing true emotions. However, others may display emotions that seem real, but they are actually the result of learned behaviors (e.g. knowing how a person is supposed to act rather than actually feeling empathy).

In any case, here are some excerpts from a couple of sites on narcissism that I thought were somewhat relevant to your questions. Take everything with a grain of salt. The truth is that I have found that books on narcissism (like Help! I'm in Love With a Narcissist, which my mother lent me to understand her own situation) are generally much better sources of complete and accurate information than the internet. The links are displayed below.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder -- 6/14/99 -- Sam Vaknin

"Moderator: This actually brings up my next question. You say in your book that "narcissists are bred by other narcissists." I was wondering if you could expand on that a bit.

Vaknin: Narcissists are bred by bad parenting, but the role of heredity (genetic component) is very unclear. It is clear that narcissistic parents breed narcissistic children. Still not all children of same narcissistic parents become narcissists. Why? What determines who will contract what? What determines which PD will be the lot of whom? It is a mystery.

The N parent objectifies the child. For him, the child is a mirror, an instrument, an extension. The child learns that these are human relationships, and he perpetrates and propagates this behavior pattern.

...

Member question: What characterizes a narcissist?

Vaknin: Hyper-dependence on the views of others, sense of entitlement, a manipulative and exploitative nature, sadism, emotional absence, grandiosity -- incommensurate with real achievements, hyper-reactivity to criticism, delusions of reference."

...


How To Diagnose Narcissism | eHow.com


Step1
"Closely observe the person you suspect of suffering from Narcissism Personality Disorder in a variety of social situations. People generally behave differently when they are surrounded by different groups of people, but people with NPD carry similar attitudes and behaviors into nearly all contexts.

Step2
Pay special attention to the suspected narcissist's dealings
with other people. Take into account the person's ability to care about the feelings of others, and the lack of openness to differing opinions or experiences. Note, in particular, the lack of empathy for other's hardships.

Step3
Listen to the person talk about herself. If the person is a narcissist, she rarely talks about anything else. Consider the narcissits' display of delusions of grandeur, a strong sense of entitlement and the opinion that they're exceptional.

Step4
Watch this person in group settings to determine if he continuously places himself at the center of attention. See if he regularly interrupts conversations to bring the focus back to himself. Identify actions that are clearly bids for attention.

Step5
Examine her close personal relationships, such as those with family members, friends and co-workers. In most instances, a narcissist leaves a trail of emotional destruction behind. The high levels of self-absorption and superiority complex that narcissists display alienates most people and at times manifests itself in neglect or emotional abuse of others."

From everything you've written, it's clear that you hold your family very dear to your heart, and it's clear that, although some of your daughter's actions may feel hurtful or confusing, you really want to find the reasons behind the problems to liberate her from them and to maximize your mother-daughter relationship. It's out of love that you ask these questions, and I'm sure that they are difficult to write here. You sound very proud of your son, and it looks like you very well should be!

I definitely don't feel good about identifying the things that I find odd or confused about some of my sister's behaviors, but I am so desperate to figure out what might be behind them so that I might actually be able to help her out of them somehow. I don't think she sees them as problematic for her or anybody else, which I also find slightly mysterious. I am embarrassed to talk about her this way, but I really do mean well, and I just want her to be able to reach her full potential in life, with family, and in her relationships. I absolutely love her very, very much!

I did post that I think some people might consider her spoiled. She grew up with a lot of advantages that most people don't have, and she might be a bit soft and naïve because of it, but I also know that she suffered from depression and anxiety as a teen.

I really, really want to know what these things might be caused by, in both your daughter's situation and my sister's, because I feel like it's the only way to really know how to act accordingly with it, and to help it to heal.

In the meantime, I send you huge bouquets of gratitude for sharing your story, for opening up this discussion, and for being so sweet.

If anyone has any ideas that could help in identifying what could be going on with the people we love, I would be enormously grateful!