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wwwaskm · Jul 15, 2008, 09:27 AM

Hello,

I wanted to know if it's OK to run from my sub-panel from a 15 amp breaker a 12/3 over to a GFCI outlet , and then pigtail out 2 more runs from that GFCI outlet a 12/3 to another GFCI outlet and a 12/2 to the Vanity lights above.

Thank you

WallyHelps · Jul 15, 2008, 12:18 PM

On a 15 amp circuit you can use 14 gauge wire (which is easier to work with... and cheaper!).
Electrically, what you mention will work. You can also save a GFCI outlet, because any outlet downstream of the first GFCI will be protected if you hook it up to the "Load" or "Output" terminals. You'll probably want your vanity light to hook up to the "Line" or "Input" terminals. Here is a great diagram.

Best of luck,
WallyH

tkrussell · Jul 15, 2008, 02:45 PM

The only advice I need to add is that any new circuit that feeds bathroom outlets must be 20 breaker on the #12 wire to meet code.

Makes sense considering the high wattage of hair appliances nowadays.

The light, and exhaust fan if needed, can only be on this outlet circuit if the circuit is limited to one bathroom.

You may use either 15 or 20 amp receptacles.

wwwaskm · Jul 15, 2008, 06:47 PM

So guys thank you both for your answers, can you give me a quick run down of the wiring gauge and if 12/3 is needed. Or can the whole run be on a 12/2. Basically, the subpanel is for the downstairs bathroom only, the run would have it's own dedicated 20 amp breaker. I would like to hook up 2 GFI's a vanity light and a bathroom fan on this run. Can you let me know how to wire this whole thing up. Thank you very much.

lmangileri · Jul 15, 2008, 06:56 PM

Also, you don't need to buy 2 separate gfci breakers. You can buy 1 and then a regular one that would be protected by it. If you're using a 20 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire you should go with 20 amp outlets. Otherwise if you buy a standard 15 amp outlet you could be running more than 15 amps in your outlet and you breaker won't trip because it's rated at 20 amps and your wire is also rated for 20 amps. If you were to run more than 15 amps through the outlet the circuit breaker in the panel would not trip and you could burn out your outlet. I'm rewording this answer for stanfortyman. It's just safest to go with 20 amps all the way around- I'm only telling you because I have had people come into the store where I worked and they had problems with burning out their outlets and the circuit breakers not tripping beforehand because they weren't consistent. I wasn't trying to get off topic but when someone mentioned 15 amp outlets I thought I should mention that it's not a good idea.

stanfortyman · Jul 15, 2008, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by lmangileri

Also, you don't need to buy 2 separate gfci breakers. you can buy 1 and then a regular one that would be protected by it. If you're using a 20 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire you should go with 20 amp outlets. Otherwise if you buy a standard 15 amp outlet you could be running more than 15 amps in your outlet and you breaker won't trip because it's rated at 20 amps and your wire is also rated for 20 amps. This will cause you to fry your outlet and who knows what else if that were to happen

Sorry bud (or Sis), this is all wrong.

The rating of the receptacle has NOTHING to do with it when you are talking about 15 and 20A circuits.
A 15A receptacle, GFI or not, CAN certainly carry 20A. They are all rated for 20A feed-through. It will NOT "fry".
Look at a 15A rated GFI receptacle. It says right on it "20A feed-through" or something to that effect.

Also, a GFI receptacle has NO overcurrent built in, it is NOT a "breaker". Meaning it does NOT trip if you draw too much. This is a function of the circuit breaker.

lmangileri · Jul 15, 2008, 07:09 PM

That's exactly it. The outlet doesn't trip, so when you use a 15 amp outlet and you have 12 gauge wire behind the wall and a 20 amp outlet everything is rated for 20 amp except the outlet, and if for some reason you have too much current going through the outlet the 20 amp breaker in the panel will not trip. All I'm saying is that its safer to be consistent. I didn't say anything about the gfi having a breaker in it.

wwwaskm · Jul 15, 2008, 07:44 PM

Guys we're getting off topic here, I really just need to know how to run the wire 12/2? 12/3? From my sub panel to a GFI from that GFI to another GFI also powering a Vanity Light through a switch and a toilet fan through a switch. Thank you

SC-tbfd · Jul 15, 2008, 10:43 PM

There are people here that will answer your question direct and to the point. I think I know the answer but I am not qualified and therefore not confident enough to do so.

For clarification for the others you are looking to have a 20 amp breaker feed 2 GFCI protected outlets and a single switch to a vanity light and fan correct?

stanfortyman · Jul 16, 2008, 03:39 AM

lmangileri, you have NO clue what you are talking about and you are out of your league here.

Much as I really don't care about those red and green boxes, it was quite adolescent for you to give me a negative rating (in retaliation) when my information is ACCURATE.

I am done with you with regard to that, but I WILL correct any inaccuracies I see.

Originally Posted by lmangileri

that's exactly it. the outlet doesn't trip, so when you use a 15 amp outlet and you have 12 gauge wire behind the wall and a 20 amp outlet everything is rated for 20 amp except the outlet, and if for some reason you have too much current going through the outlet the 20 amp breaker in the panel will not trip.(WHAT?!?!?!?!?) All I'm saying is that its safer to be consistent. I didn't say anything about the gfi having a breaker in it.

COMPLETELY inaccurate.
A GFI has NOTHING to do with overcurrent. NOTHING!

Like I said, 15A receptacles ARE rated for 20A feed-through.

-- Sorry everyone else, posters like this make me crazy, especially when they try to justify their blatantly incorrect advice.

stanfortyman · Jul 16, 2008, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by wwwaskm

Guys we're getting off topic here, i really just need to know how to run the wire 12/2? 12/3? from my sub panel to a GFI from that GFI to another GFI also powering a Vanity Light through a switch and a toilet fan through a switch. Thank you

Run 12/2 from the panel to the first GFI receptacle. From there two runs of 12/2, one to another standard receptacle, the other to a switch box. The run to the other receptacle will be put on the "LOAD" screws of the GFI. The run to the switch will go on the "LINE" screws with the feed, there are two holes for this. From the switch a 12/2 to the light.

Use the deepest single gang boxes you can. For the first one you will need at least a 20 cu/in box, which is about 3" deep.
You can/should use 15A devices for everything, unless of course you are in Canada.

wwwaskm · Jul 16, 2008, 07:29 AM

Sorry, for all the confusion, I'll try again, I want to run from a 20 amp breaker 2 GFI's and 2 switches one for a fan and one for the vanity light. I really just need to know what gauge and type of wire goes where and how to connect each of them together in series.

Thanks again everybody!

wwwaskm · Jul 16, 2008, 07:33 AM

Stanforty man Thank you that was perfect. Now if I want to have 2 switches one for the vanity and one for the fan. Can I run 2 12/2's from the line side of the first GFI to the switches and then on from the individual switches to there fan/light. I'm guessing all the ground/copper will be tied together starting from the first GFI and pigtailed if necessary.

Thanks again!

stanfortyman · Jul 16, 2008, 09:35 AM

Exactly. You can use 12/3 from the switches to the fan/light if you want.

ALL grounds get spliced and all devices get grounded.

gabri3l · Oct 15, 2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by tkrussell

The only advice I need to add is that any new circuit that feeds bathroom outlets must be 20 breaker on the #12 wire to meet code.

Makes sense considering the high wattage of hair appliances nowadays.

The light, and exhaust fan if needed, can only be on this outlet circuit if the circuit is limited to one bathroom.

You may use either 15 or 20 amp receptacles.

Hey do you know the article number of the NEC this code is listed. Im trying to explain this to an inspector, but he's insisting that the master bath outlet be independent from the guest bath. The lighting circuit is dedicated.

stanfortyman · Oct 15, 2009, 03:05 PM

Section 210.11(C)(3)

tkrussell · Oct 16, 2009, 01:22 PM

Stan is correct with the NEC section.

Could be either the inspector does not understand the reading or intent of Section 210.11(C)3 and the exception, or has changed it to be a local code.

Or is a BLANK head, fill in the blank.

Let us know how you make out.