[orange]

Well now that we're all back home and *somewhat* back to a normal routine, I'm starting to think again about the baby I will be having. I'm due in mid-June, right around Father's Day actually, haha. Anyway, I've been starting to ask (and receive) a lot of baby advice from family and friends. Most of it has been pretty consistent, but the one thing everyone seems to disagree on is picking up babies when they're crying. Both my mother-in-law and my adoptive mom think there are times when you should leave them in the crib to cry. However, my best friend, who has 2 little ones under 5, thinks you should always pick them up no matter what.

I am actually inclined to the idea of letting them cry sometimes, especially as the baby gets older. But my friend says this is bad parenting. Her oldest is almost 4 now, and she went to him every single time he cried... in fact she still does. She co-slept with him until he was 3 and breastfed him until age 2. She still has a lot of difficulty with him not going to bed at a reasonable hour, as he has no set bedtime, and she won't force him to go to bed. Her reasoning is, she doesn't want him to associate going to bed with bad things and negative emotions. She also says that going to a baby every time they cry makes them feel much more safe and secure than if you let them cry.

Anyway I'm confused about the differences of opinion here. I want to do the best thing for my baby, but at the same time, I'm not really thrilled with the idea of having the baby basically run the whole household for the next 4-5 years or longer, which seems to be what's happened with my friend. She never has time for herself or her husband, ever. Plus as some of you know, my husband is a very busy doctor (and thus not home for long periods during the day), and I now have a 4 and a 6 year old to care for as well.

[Fr_Chuck]

Does the co slept till they were 3 give you some idea that they are way out in left field on parenting even for the liberal books.

Babies cry if they are hungy, if they are wet and if they want attention ( if they get that attention all the time)

Babies will never sleep alone till they are 20 if you run to them when they cry every time during the middle of the night.

Believe me, soon you will be able to tell the hungry cry, the wet cry, and the I want you to come spoil me cry.
And very soon in a room filed with babies most likely you can tell yours cry from others crying.

You start them in the bassnet or crib, and have them a set bed time, and stick with it. They will fuss but they will get used to going to bed and most important learn who is the boss.

If you read some of the other posts you will see page after page of people who have children who won't listen, who talk back and won't do what they are told. Guess how their parents most likely did them.

And it won't stop at 5 years, if they are running it at 5 they will be ordering you around and talking back at 10 since you would not have set the rules.

Children need and really want rules. But the parents have to be a solid front agreeing.

Ok, will it drive you nuts the first few nights of crying for what will seem forever, yep, I almost had to handcuff my wife to the bed, but in about 3 or 4 nihgts, baby gone to sleep no problem.

[Cgirl]

Hi Orange-
I have found in raising my son, that everyone has his/her opinion on how you should raise your child. I have found that you have to do what YOU think is right, although you will probably do best with a happy medium between the two views you have shared. Yes, it is OK to let the baby cry, but maybe after the first few months, because I believe you can never spoil an infant under a certain age. Usually a baby from birth to 3 months crys for one of 3 reasons, they are hungry, uncomfortable (from wet diaper or other), or tired. Once they hit a certain age then that is when they will cry for other reasons (usually though not until about 4 months.) As for me, my son cried and I would jump up the first time I heard even a whimper and people in my family kept telling me "you are spoiling him!" but I just ignored them and learned on my own, not to immediately jump up every time they cry, but most of the time if they need something they will keep on crying, and as a mom, you will eventually be able to tell what kind of cry it is, whether it's a "hungry" cry, a "I'm in pain" cry etc. Just don't let other people's advice decide for you because every baby is different. My son slept through the night at 8 weeks old (which was nice for me because I nursed him) and once in a while I would here him whimper in his sleep and at first I would jump up and make sure he was still breathing, but then I got used to it and would wait it out, to see if he would just go right back to sleep, and most of the time he did. Just know that YOU only will know best for YOUR baby, and you will be surprised at how natural it will feel once you have him/her. Congrats, and hang in there, you will do just fine :)

[jduke44]

I agree with Fr Chuck and Cgirl(I couldn't rate Chuck). The way it used to be and my mother will tell you is if you don't let the baby cry you will spoil them. Then my mother-in-law will tell you always give them the love (but that is now that she is a grandmother, of course). Now they say the first 2-3 months you should go to them immediately because it will assure them security of knowing you are there in the beginning. Then after that it is let him cry for 20 min and if they don't stop then it might be a problem. When we had our first son we went to him right away. I thought that would spoil him but it didn't seem to. When our second son came we had to go to him when he cried for bedtime so he wouldn't wake up my oldest. I think that did cause a little problem because my wife could not get him to go to bed at a specific time. With consistancy and persistence we finally got him on a bedtime routine and he is a year now. I would do what your instincts say. Consistancy with bedtime is the key though. They need structure in there lives, if he doesn't have that your son might give you problems regardless. We had an excellent pediatrician that would give us advice along the way also. She wan't paranoid about things. You will do great!

[orange]

Thanks guys, all really good comments and suggestions. What I'm hearing from all of you is, trust my own instincts, and don't worry about letting the child cry sometimes. I'm planning on being very attentive when the baby is young, but once he's an older baby, I want him to have some rules and a schedule. A year old, like you mentioned jduke, sounds reasonable to me. I certainly don't want to be in the situation that my friend is in, with her child being almost 4 and pretty much running the house.

[jduke44]

I would try to get him in a routine earlier than that. I would say 6 months at least. I wouldn't worry too much if he doesn't abide by the bedtime right away. I forgot to mention, this is only my opinion, I wouldn't advise the sleeping in the same bed thing. I thin nowadays hospitals frown upon that because of SIDS. I frown upon that because sleep time may be the only time you and your husband (soon to be) will have anytime together. One things I learned, and I understand I may get flak over this but your husband is your first priority. What I mean by that is that, yes you need to love your children, provide for your children, and care for your children but when they are gone and out of the house, if you and your husband didn't spend time together, you won't know what to do together. I wouldn't take my advice as Gospel, but I would consider it. Any advice that you get I would consider but you will need to change it as you see fit to your family. Good luck.

[orange]

Jduke, I totally agree with you about the co-sleeping and husband thing. My friend is a huge proponent of co-sleeping, but her marital relationship has suffered as a result. She actually told her husband to sleep on the couch when the baby was born, because she was worried he was going to roll on the kid in his sleep. He still sleeps on the couch most of the time, even though the child is almost 4, and she has a new baby now too. So she and the youngest sleep in the big bed, and her oldest who's almost 4 sleeps on a mattress in the parent's bedroom. So she never, ever gets a break from the kids. I was bold and asked her how she got pregnant the second time, haha, and she told me that she and her husband had sex while the oldest (3 at the time) was asleep in the same room!! Ugh.

Anyway as I said my husband is a very busy doctor, spends 12+ hours a day at Emergency in the hospital where he currently works, and in August, he is starting a 5 year residency to become a specialist... so then he will have classes on top of regular doctor work and being on call (if you watch Grey's Anatomy you will have an idea of much he will have to work, and without all the illicit sex and drama, either lol... that part of the show is so fake!). Anyway. So any time we can have together is going to be precious. Plus I want all 3 kids to understand boundaries and privacy... I think the kids need some privacy and alone time away from us, too! We don't need to be in the same room 24/7 to be a happy family.

[jduke44]

I am really glad you agree about the sleeping bed thing. Rolling over on the baby is the other reason we never got into it. They do have the side beds that you can hook to your bed. That would be another option to sleeping in the bed. I would have never put up with sleeping on the couch. The only time I or my wife have slept on the couch is if we were sick and going to keep the other awake. I never slept on the bed from us having a fight, either. LOL. Whenever, my oldest(now 2) has a bad dream we don't even let him sleep in our bed. We don't want him to get started doing that because he would get in the habit. Some kids can handle that, and that is perfectly fine once in a while. We do stay with him for awhile until he feels he's OK to sleep on his own. Actually, he always wants us to pray for him. Sometimes it lasts for 15 min sometimes 2 hours (staying in his room that is).

I will have to admit, if it came to having sex with the baby in the room, I would do it. It is a little awkward but depending on the age, the baby doesn't know.

I have seen those shows, mainly ER. I haven't watched the recent ones. Yes they are so fake. I would suggest getting a support group around you. Either a friend or someone you can call to get together with the kids (if they have kids) or even that you can call to vent. Sounds like you are going to be around your kids a lot. Don't be afraid to have a babysitter for even just an hour to get away from the kids. You wouldn't be a bad parent for feeling like that. Hopefully your adopted kids can help out a little. I think they may be old enough to start helping with things around the house.

[orange]

That's really great about your 2 year old. It gives me hope that my baby will not be like my friend's almost 4 year old! Yikes. I agree I don't think I want any of the children in bed with us... as you say it might be okay sometimes but it may easily become a habit too. My newly adopted 4 and 6 year old slept with me during the shiva in Vancouver, but since we've been back they've been sleeping in their own beds with no problem, except for bad dreams, which is understandable. And I don't mind sitting with them in their rooms in the middle of the night. I much prefer that to them being in our bedroom.

I will have to admit, if it came to having sex with the baby in the room, I would do it. It is a little awkward but depending on the age, the baby doesn't know.

I can understand it with a baby, but her child was 3 years old at the time, and he was in the same bed while it happened (sleeping of course)! She was laughing about it. To me that's a little creepy.

Yeah a support group is a good idea. Actually I'm currently looking for a playgroup and/or a mother's group to join. Alex thinks he's heard of a doctors wives group too, and he's going to ask about it at work. Once my adoptive parents come back to town (May 1), I will likely be hanging out with them quite a bit too. When they're in town, I see them practically every day. I usually spend a good portion of the summer helping them in their large garden. They've already offered to watch Shaina and Levi a couple of times a week, and take them for a few days when the baby is born.

And yeah the children are looking forward to the new baby. They're already asking how they can help, if they can decorate his room, when they can play with him, etc. Shaina is just disappointed that he's going to be a boy. She wants a baby sister instead. I told her maybe next time. ;)

[Myth]

I co-slept my girls until they were about six months. My oldest was a premie and the dr. acctually told me it was better for her to be close to me than in her crib all alone. With my second it was just a comfort thing and she is very close to me too and I even think it helped her develop, but after six months I didn't feel that it was safe anymore because they were moving around sooo much by that point. Even when they were infants I didn't run to them at their first cry cause I wanted their little lungs to develop. I almost think that was a mistake now hearing my nine yr olds shreek from two blocks away. Not to say I let them cry more than a couple of minutes either. I found that a time or two around three I had to let them cry themselves out because my ex didn't give them a nap and they were just tooo tired to be consoled. It lasted a top of ten minutes in their room with soft music and a little night light. I also learned that what works for one doesn't work for the other. I have no Idea how twins are going to work but hey I guess that's just another lesson that I get to learn now. I'm debating co-sleeping them because more than likely they will be early too. I'm told that's typical with twins. My man works nights so it shouldn't be a problem for space in the bed... lol... Somehow most moms and dads know what's right for their children weither it be to let some behavior slide some of the time or when to pick them up or looking at a child that to others looks positively healthy and knowing that he's coming down with something. There are extremes out there, yes. I personally won't let any of my children run my household and know it... granted they do, but I'm mom and I'm not going to lose the upper hand... lol. Do what you feel is right not what everyone else tells you to do. Just like every pregnancy is different so is every child. Just go with your gut, it's going to tell you more than anyone else possibly can

[orange]

Thanks again Myth! I am pretty dead set against co-sleeping, but you're absolutely right, I won't know for sure how I feel until the baby is here and I will definitely try to trust my instincts on this one. Unfortunately my husband works days and the night time is the only time we're together, haha, so he will be wanting the bed at the same time as me! But I guess we'll see what happens.

[jduke44]

Orange, your situation is a very different one as far as the 4 and 6 yr old. You already did what your instincts told you by having them sleep with you because that is what they needed at the time. Their parents just died unexpectedly! It sounds to me like they are well adjusted and it is great they want to help you. You will do fine.

[kp2171]

Concerning co-sleeping:

Daughter slept with her mother off and on for years when she was a single mom. She'll still come home to visit from time to time and want to sleep in bed with her ma.

My son has been in and out of the bed. Wife has had to travel and doesn't get to see him much, so even though it creates a burden sometimes, its good time for her and him. Most advise against the child sleeping in the bed with you. There are obvious safety issues with very little ones in bed with a parent. My son has often slept my chest in a chair when he's sick and cannot breathe laying down.

Generally I'd say its best to get them into their own space as soon as you can. I think somewhere around 9 months is when they can start to control themselves more w sleeping and waking... so most books suggest trying to have the routine down by the time they hit this stage.

Another advantage to getting them to sleep on their own is its easier then for them to go to grandma's to sleep or for a sitter to get them down.

We had ours in the bed for some time. The price you pay is mostly lack of alone time with spouse and then when you do train them to sleep in their bed they're older and more resistant.

Do what feels best to you.

My grandfather slept in the same bed with his parents as a little child for warmth during the depression, and then later with his siblings. He turned out fine. There are pros and cons both ways.

As for crying:

You'll figure it out. Many say if they're crying because they are frustrated about a task, try to give them some time. Solving the problem every time for them isn't the best thing to do. But also sometimes showing them the answer and soothing them helps.

My kid gripes and grumps a couple times a day. A few times I'll ignore it and tell him to work it out on his own. When its genuine frustration I'll try to give him help or a hug if that's what it takes.

[aqua@home]

Hi,

I have a few years experience and I've done it a couple of different ways.

1. When it comes to a crying baby you have to judge according to why they are crying. You will probably be able to pick up on the different cries a baby can have. If there's trouble pick them up. If it's just for attention (which isn't always a bad thing) then you need to decide. I was told I was spoiling my babies by picking them up as often as I did. How can you really spoil a newborn? The only thing that can be a little trying is colic. That is horrible but it does pass. Just a little hint for the futue... while I was nursing I couldn't drink milk because it made my babies colicky.
2. Co-sleeping I would not recommend. Only because with our first we did that and when she was 3, she was very hard to break from doing that. I learned my lesson. So with the last four children, they got to sleep with us until they were 6 months then they had to move into their own bed in their own room. The nursing through the night stopped then too. It only takes about 3 or 4 evenings of crying. I would put them in bed and check on them and reassure them I was still there about every 10 minutes. It doesn't take long. My children even go for their naps wonderfully. The last baby was a little harder because he was "the last baby".

I hope I haven't gone too far off the deep end here. Good luck and congratulations.

[pab]

Don't let a baby cry. Love them, cuddle them, reassure them that you are there. This will make them a secure person. Don't fall for the "Ferberizing BS"! I have four children. I held them when they cried, I nursed them till they were 2-3. They slept with me till 3. They are independent well nurtured children. You can NEVER go wrong this way. There is no such thing as spoiling a baby. To hell with cribs, playpens, bottles. If you are going to be a mother, BE A MOTHER and MOTHER that BABY. LOVE IT, HOLD IT, BOND, and you willl NEVER regret any of it. IT goes by in a wink.

[orange]

Thanks pab. I've gotten so many differing responses and opinions on this thread, but I've really appreciated all of them. Actually I still don't know what all I'm going to do when the baby is born. I was planning on breast feeding until 12 months and not co-sleeping, but I keep changing my mind about everything. I'm sure it will all fall together when my baby is born. I'm planning on relying a lot on my instinct at that point.

[milliec]

I agree with Pab.
In any case, it will be difficult for you to let the baby cry. My daughter's son was rather difficult, and we both were lost when he kept crying and we could do nothing about it.
She nursed him in her bed at times, she was just SO tired.
It took tome for him to agree to go to bed in his room, he was used to the crib in theirs, but it's o.k. now.
It just took time.
The best thing to do I, as in any situation, to follow your instincts.
Now it's really time to go to sleep, isn't it?
Millie :)

[orange]

LOL yeah it's time I went to bed!!

My baby is extremely active tonight... usually he gets quite active in the evenings and then I have trouble sleeping. It's hard to rest while he's dancing around inside me! :p

But I'm going to lie down very soon, as it's almost 1 am here!

[milliec]

I guess you know:
Sugar DOES make them active!
BUT: I miss these kicks!
Even whenthough at times they were painful
Millie:)

[orange]

No I didn't know about the sugar, Millie. Thanks for letting me know. That would explain last night for sure, but he's active most nights and I rarely eat any sugar at all. I even check labels for grams of sugar in processed foods. I'm kind of a health nut!

Besides being very active, he's also apparently bigger than normal for this stage of his development. He seems to be taking after his father in that regard. My husband was born 3 weeks early and weighed 10 pounds! Ugh. I am a small person, 5'2" and when not pregnant I weigh about 105 lbs. I hope I am able to deliver this big baby! I don't want a c section.