[tomder55]

Ron Paul Campaign Announces Addition of New Policy Advisors | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET.com

... Philip Giraldi... from an essay he penned in 'The American Conservative'
The Spy Who Loves Us

About Israel spying on the United States...

Even if Israel has stopped recruiting American Jews-- and that is by no means certain-- it nevertheless continues to carry out many core intelligence operations in the United States.

About Israeli "spys " having advanced knowledge of the 9-11 attack and celebrating as the WTC fell down :

And then there are the movers. Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, New Jersey was largely staffed by Israelis, many of whom had recently been discharged from the Israeli Defense Forces. As has been widely reported, three movers were photographed celebrating in Liberty State Park against the backdrop of the first collapsing World Trade Center tower. The celebration came 16 minutes after the first plane struck, when no one knew that there had been a terrorist attack and the episode was assumed to be a horrible accident. The owner of the moving company, Dominik Suter, was questioned once by the FBI before fleeing to Israel. He has since refused to answer questions.
Whether the movers and the art students had jointly pieced together enough information to provide a preview of 9/11 remains hidden in intelligence files in Tel Aviv, but the proximity of both groups to 15 of the hijackers in Hollywood, Florida and to five others in northern New Jersey is suggestive.

Speculation about 9/11 aside, it is certain that Urban Moving was involved in an intelligence-collection operation against Arabs living in the United States, possibly involving electronic surveillance of phone calls and other communications. When they were arrested, the five Israelis working for Urban Moving had multiple passports and nearly $5,000 in cash. They were held for 71 days, failed a number of polygraph exams, and were finally allowed to return to Israel after Tel Aviv admitted that they were Mossad and apologized.

Between 55 and 95 other Israelis were also arrested in the weeks following 9/11, and a number were reported to be active-duty military personnel. The FBI came under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro-Israel groups to release the detainees. The order to free them came from Judge Michael Mukasey, now the U.S. attorney general. An FBI investigator noted, "Leads were not fully investigated� due to pressure from "higher echelons." According to one source, the White House may have made the final decision to terminate the inquiry. Though the investigation could have gone much farther, the FBI identified two of the Weehawken movers as Israeli intelligence officers and confirmed that Urban Moving was a front for Mossad to "spy on local Arabs." One CIA officer involved in the investigation concluded, "The Israelis likely had a huge spy operation."

So now that the Paul campaign is in haiatus who does Giraldi now shill for ? You got it... he's an ObamaCon

Philip Giraldi: Obama the Conservative Choice - Politics on The Huffington Post

[George_1950]

Wild birds of a feather, flock together.

[tomder55]

Certainly they have a commonality in their hostility to the State of Israel despite Obama's attempts to disguise it.

[BABRAM]

Ron Paul Campaign Announces Addition of New Policy Advisors | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET.com

If there were three former IDF intelligence celebrating the foreknowledge of the towers collapsing, it was not cheering innocents to their death, but that the US was to ignorant for not taking heed. Actually Israel receives most insights of information about the US, directly from the US, and in fact it's freely given to them. I'm reading between the lines here, but I think Giraldi's made the presumption that the US was aware of the pending attack.

Philip Giraldi: Obama the Conservative Choice - Politics on The Huffington Post

Second article is a blogged opinion and for the most part, I agree.

certainly they have a commonality in their hostility to the State of Israel despite Obama's attempts to disguise it.

Siege Heil: Republican Reich! You guys have a lot to tell, but little to hear.

[tomder55]

If you don't see the comparison in Ron Paul and Obama's obvious hostility towards the state of Israel then you are in a state of denial . Paul opposes American aid and alignment with Israel and goes so far as to say it is our alignment with Israel that attracts terrorist attacks. He said that members of Congress have been "intimidated by the influence of AIPAC" He also said that "the assumption is that AIPAC is in control of things".
It is true that he has a generally warped view of America's role in the world and his critique goes beyond Israel ;but he holds a particular contempt for the US Israel relationship.

With Obama ,as is often the case you can find out more about his position by the company he keeps and support for groups like the one Rashid Khalidi helps run. I won't go into the obvious anti-Israeli activists and clerics .WE have already discussed them. But inside his campaign ,his closest advisors are clearly anti-Israel.
Samantha Power ,a Harvard professor was one of his closest foreign policy advisors (before she was thrown under the bus for calling Evita a monster). She implied that it is our relationship with Israel that is the reason we are in Iraq:

Another longstanding foreign policy flaw is the degree to which special interests dictate the way in which the “national interest” as a whole is defined and pursued . . . America's important historic relationship with Israel has often led foreign policy decision-makers to defer reflexively to Israeli security assessments, and to replicate Israeli tactics, which, as the war in Lebanon last summer demonstrated, can turn out to be counter-productive.

So greater regard for international institutions along with less automatic deference to special interests–especially when it comes to matters of life and death and war and peace–seem to be two take-aways from the war in Iraq.

One of his top foreign policy advisers Zbigniew Brzezinski has a long history of anti-Israel positions . It is he who I believe is mostly responsible for Jimmy Carters turn to blatant and one sided anti-Israel positons and slanders.

Another of his closest advisors is Robert Malley ,who has penned revisionist books about the Camp David accords whick blames Israel for their failure. At the meetings Ehud Barak offered Arafat almost everything the Palestinians wanted and asked in return that they give up the so called "right of return". Arafat walked out of the meetings rather than give up that non-starter . Malley wrote that Barak was playing hardline in the negotiations.

Obama's national campaign co-chairman is retired Air Force Gen. Merrill McPeak. McPeak asserted that American politicians are afraid of Jewish voters who "vote … in favor of Israel and no politician wants to run against it."

Does it suprise me that another anti-Israel advisor would embrace Obama then ? I think not .

[BABRAM]

What a surprise! We disagree again. It's 2008 "Tom," and more than just the Kramden's receive TV cable news channels. I watched and listened to Obama address APAIC, and he gave his one hundred percent support to Israel. I'm going to work. Try and think of some new campaign propaganda while I'm gone. Have a good day. :)

[George_1950]

I don't know about Obama and Israel; based on what has transpired in other forums, issues, and debates, he is capable of saying anything and completely changing course on a dime. I did hear Paul talk about Israel in a forum or debate, and I concluded that he is not capable of managing the foreign affairs of the U.S. in the situation we are in; he sounded incompetent.

[tomder55]

Bobby .Maybe you were at work the next day when he made clarifications (flip-flop;backtrack... whatever) to his major support talking points .

Facing criticism from Palestinians, Sen. Barack Obama acknowledged today that the status of Jerusalem will need to be negotiated in future peace talks, amending a statement earlier in the week that Jerusalem "must remain undivided."
Obama, during a speech Wednesday to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-israel lobbying group, had called for Jerusalem to become the site of the U.S. embassy, a frequent pledge for U.S. presidential candidates. (It is now in Tel Aviv.) But his statement that Jerusalem should be the undivided capital of Israel drew a swift rebuke from Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

"This statement is totally rejected," Abbas told reporters in Ramallah. "The whole world knows that holy Jerusalem was occupied in 1967 and we will not accept a Palestinian state without having Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state."

Obama quickly backtracked today in an interview with CNN.
"Well, obviously, it's going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations," Obama said when asked whether Palestinians had no future claim to the city.
Obama said "as a practical matter, it would be very difficult to execute" a division of the city. "And I think that it is smart for us to -- to work through a system in which everybody has access to the extraordinary religious sites in Old Jerusalem but that Israel has a legitimate claim on that city."
But Rep. Robert Wexler (D-Fla.) later said on behalf of the Obama campaign that Obama's comment to CNN should not be seen as backtracking or even an amendment. He said Obama was clarifying that he has long believed that it is up to the parties involved to determine the status of Jerusalem.

The "clarification" put Obama on the same page with President Bush and longstanding US policy .But his comments about Jerusalem broght one of the largest applauses during the APAIC address. As you know ;his comments about Jerusalem were hardly ambigous.

“Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided”

“The Orthodox Union is extremely disappointed in this revision of Senator Obama’s important statement about Jerusalem,” said Nathan Diament, director of public policy for the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations. He had sent out a release Wednesday applauding Obama’s Jerusalem remarks in front of AIPAC.
“In the current context, everyone understands that saying ‘Jerusalem… must remain undivided’ means that the holy city must remain unified under Israeli rule, as it has been since 1967,” Diament explained.
“If Senator Obama intended his remarks at AIPAC to be understood in this way, he said nothing that would reasonably lead to such a different interpretation.”
Morton Klein, president of the Zionist Organization of America and another Jewish activist who had originally lauded Obama’s statement, now called the candidate’s words “troubling.”
“It means he used the term inappropriately, possibly to mislead strong supporters of Israel that he supports something he doesn’t really believe,” Klein charged…
And some groups were pleased by the clarification on Jerusalem provided by the campaign. “There was reaction from some of our base who were taken aback by it and thought he was undermining the peace process,” said Americans for Peace Now spokesman Ori Nir, who described his organization as “gratified” by the clarified position which seems to follow APN’s policy that sovereignty of Jerusalem could be shared in a final peace settlement…

Obama Clarifies Remarks on Jerusalem | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

Obama clarifies united J'lem comment | Jerusalem Post

[BABRAM]

Tom- I agree. Like most politicians they do speak ambiguously, especially during a campaign election year. Obama, McCain, Hillary, and Dubya for that matter, all speak ambiguously positive about Israel. On Father's Day we can all agree to disagree, or as in many cases we do agree just from different perspectives. I'd rather be home today, but I've got to work; casino's are 24/7/365. Happy Father's Day to you and all fathers.

[magprob]

Apples and Oranges. As a NeoCon tom, you believe the Zionist are the true Jewish peoples.
Yes, the Arabs hate the American NeoCon/Zionist government. So do many American people. Unfortunately, many of you are not clear on the difference. There IS a difference.

Zionists Do Not Represent Jews

[BABRAM]

Just a note, which I think is relative here as Zionist and Israel was mentioned. There are plenty of Jews that are not Zionists. The reason there are Jews that are not Zionists has to do with their perspective within the context of Judaism, but I want bore everybody by lecturing on the details. I've contemplated both sides of the issue. Anyway, in short, people can be supportive of Jews and non-Jews residing peacefully in Israel and not necessarily favor Zionism.

[magprob]

Jews and non-Jewish people resided in Isreal and all over the world, in peace and harmony until the Zionist movement came storm trooping to town.

[tomder55]

Bobby
Thanks ;had a great father's day. Took my weekend hike in the woods ; worked on my garden bar b que'd and watched Tiger make some outstanding shots. In short, a very relaxing day . My daughter will take me out bowling on some future rainy day weekend.

[tomder55]

Magprob
Well yes at the beginning of the modern state of Israel a significant part of the Jewish population came from European persecution. But more than 60 % emigrated from dhimmi status within the ME. I guess you consider their lives and condition to have been living in peace and harmony .But the truth is that dhimmi status is a life of social legal and religious persecution. They were in fact refugees from persecution from their own countries of origin. So no ;Israel is not simply a European zionist entity.

The myth here is that the animus began with the creation of the modern state of Israel. But here is the perception of the Jews from a Msulim who should know better . This was from former Saudi ruler King Faysal :

Israel has had malicious intentions since ancient times. Its objective is the destruction of all other religions. It is proven from history that they are the ones who ignited the Crusades at the time of Saladin the Ayyubid so that the war would lead to the weakening of both Muslims and Christians. They regard the other religions as lower than their own and other peoples as inferior to their level. And on the subject of vengeance - they have a certain day on which they mix the blood of non-Jews into their bread and eat it. It happened that two years ago, while I was in Paris on a visit, that the police discovered five murdered children. Their blood had been drained, and it turned out that some Jews had murdered them in order to take their blood and mix it with the bread that they eat on this day. This shows you what is the extent of their hatred and malice toward non-Jewish peoples.

They ignited the crusades... The fact is that the "Pact of Umar" that dictates how the conquered non-Muslims who do not convert are treated ,has been around since the 7th century . The root of the conflict resides in the resentment of Dhimmis ruling a small piece of land once in control of the califate.

[magprob]

Tribal.