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badrich · Jun 6, 2008, 08:09 PM

Shut cold water off at water heater downstairs. Replaced water shut off valve at toilet upstairs. Turned cold water valve back on. Can't get water back on. Perhaps an air lock?

speedball1 · Jun 7, 2008, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by badrich

Shut cold water off at water heater downstairs. Replaced water shut off valve at toilet upstairs. Turned cold water valve back on. Can't get water back on. Perhaps an air lock?

You're not air locked so let's look at what's happening. I don't think shutting down the cold water inlet to the water heater would allow you to change a toilet supply. Did you mean the house shut off? If so that's where I would begain to check. Iwould turn the water off at the meter shut off and open up the valve you shut off. Check the washer to be sure it's securely fastened and the seat isn't blocked. You might have someone go out and just crack the meter valve to see if the line's clear. Do you have a PRV,( Pressure Reducing Valve) installed? Let me know, Tom

badrich · Jun 9, 2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

You're not air locked so let's look at what's happening. I don't think shutting down the cold water inlet to the water heater would allow you to change a toilet supply. Did you mean the house shut off? If so that's where I would begain to check. Iwould turn the water off at the meter shut off and open up the valve you shut off. Check the washer to be sure it's securely fastened and the the seat isn't blocked. You might have someone go out and just crack the meter valve to see if the line's clear. Do you have a PRV,( Pressure Reducing Valve) installed? Let me know, Tom

Thanks, Tom. It turns out my assistant turned off another shut off valve by the water meter. Now that the water is turned on, there is a water leak from the new shut off valve. I need to remove the old ring and nut from the incoming water pipe, but I need to know the best way to do this. The ring is tight on the pipe and the nut doesn't allow me to put any kind of pipe wrench or channel locks on the ring. If I put heat on the ring will it expand enough to come right off? Or will I need to do something drastic, like crack the nut? Thanks again, Rich.

massplumber2008 · Jun 9, 2008, 03:03 PM

Hi Badrich:

You need a compression sleeve/handle puller removal tool for this job... not just a handle puller tool... must be a combo. tool... see pic. Below.

Don't heat or crack anything off yet!. ;)

Tool sets into the pipe and the handles go behind the nut... tighten and should pull the sleeve off.

You will need a new 5/8" compression x 3/8" compression angle or straight shutoff to finalize repair.. see pics.

Let us know what you think... MARK

hkstroud · Jun 9, 2008, 03:10 PM

Before doing anything drastic check to be sure that the valve is not leaking around the valve stem. If it is indeed leaking around the compression fitting around the 1/2" pipe coming around out of the wall remove the valve. Put a small amount of pipe joint compound on the beveled edge of the compression ring toward the valve and reinstall. You have a very good chance of stoping the leak.

speedball1 · Jun 9, 2008, 03:36 PM

It's seldom that I have to remove a ferrule and compression nut when I replace a angle stop unless the compression nut's cracked. Are you sure that a new stop can't be installed using the old stuff? Bob has a point. Where's the leak? PS. DO NOT ever put pipe dope on a ferrule. Tom

badrich · Jun 9, 2008, 07:53 PM

Gentlemen: Thanks very much for the information. It was leaking around the 1/2" inlet pipe. I reinstalled the 3/8 - 5/8" 1/4 turn angle valve and *really* tightened it this time. There is just a tiny bit of water now on the bottom of the valve, which I don't like, but at least I can now turn the water on without having to go outside. I do have a question. One of you suggests that I use a little pipe compound on the beveled edge of the compression ring and one says not to put any on the ferrule. Isn't this the same thing? I haven't use pipe compound yet. I have used teflon tape on the threads. Tomorrow I install a kit on the toilet. Working on my Cobra is better than this. ; ) Rich

speedball1 · Jun 10, 2008, 05:42 AM

Hey Rich,

. I do have a question. One of you suggests that I use a little pipe compound on the beveled edge of the compression ring and one says not to put any on the ferrule. Isn't this the same thing? I haven't use pipe compound yet. I have used teflon tape on the threads.

I was the guy that advised against using pipoe dope on a ferrule. Whille this may stop the leak I err on the side of caution. Back when I was out plumbing condos I doped a ferrule on a kitchen angle stop. The owners left to go back North but left the water on. The pipe dope swelled and cracked the compression nut. Have you ever seen a unit where the water's been leaking for months? Water was seen coming out of the fromt door by the time we were notified. EVERYTHING was full of water , all the veneer had peeled off the furniture, the walls were black with mold and the entire unit had to be torn out to the bare walls and rebuilt to the tune of 35 grand. I lucked out! The manufacture of the angle stop had got a bad shipment of brass from Brazil that didn't have the everything it should have and so they ate the repair.
While doping a ferrule is most likely to stop a leak I keep remembering what that condo looked like when I first walked in. And that's the reason I advised against it. PS. Taping the threads oin a compression nut is a waste of time and tape. The threads don not hold back any water.
Good luck, Tom

massplumber2008 · Jun 10, 2008, 07:04 AM

Hi Guys:

I was also trained not to use pipe dope on any kind of ferrule. I was told that the pipe dope can continue to be squeezed out by the compression fit and could lead to leak over time.

Just FYI!

Good day all... MARK

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