[frangipanis]

I've heard people 'say' our immune systems have become weakened because we've become overly obsessed with cleanliness. I can't find much on the net to back this argument up and so I'm wondering what sort of evidence actually exists. Does anyone happen to know?

On a similar track, it's obvious to me that kids aren't allowed to do a lot of the things my generation took for granted as being normal and healthy activities when I was growing up, and I sometimes wonder what sort of long term effects this might have. It won't be all positive or all negative, and perhaps it might not really matter all that much.

Do you think we've become too soft and too clean for our own good? I'd be interested to know your thoughts on this.

Aussie blokes are going soft | The Courier-Mail

Hygiene Hypothesis: Are We Too "Clean" for Our Own Good?

The Hygiene Hypothesis: Are Cleanlier Lifestyles Causing More Allergies For Kids?

[firmbeliever]

BBC NEWS | Health | Cleanliness 'leads to diabetes'
Healthy Children: Cleanliness and asthma
----------------------
"Perhaps most surprisingly, one of the greatest triggers for the development of asthma these days in children is hygiene and cleanliness. In years previous, antibacterial products were not available. Soap and water were "good enough" for our mothers and grandmothers to keep their homes clean. Children also spent much more time outside playing in the dirt and getting dirty. These days, they spend their time on the computer. Therefore, children were exposed to and had to develop immunities to many types of different bacteria and germs that they no longer are exposed to as a matter of course. In addition, we are absolutely rabid about "antibacterial" products and think that any germ whatsoever should not touch our children or ourselves. However, this is not only not practical, but it actually flies in the face of common sense. We need exposure to bacteria and to germs to build immunities. If we do not get this exposure, one of the results is asthma. Therefore, it is prudent that we not use antibacterial products, but go back to plain old soap and water. We should also strive to have "clean" rather than "sterile" environments for both ourselves and our children."
Asthma in Children is Becoming More Frequent
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I do believe children need to be exposed to natural elements in the sense that they should be able to play outdoors at sometime.
And excessive cleanliness in children is a hard task (too much hard work for us parent) which I feel is a good thing as they will be exposed to build up their immune system unless they were born with weak immune systems.
If they are born with weak immune systems,obviously parents will need to be careful what their child is exposed to.

Maybe the weakness does not start after birth but even before.
Us parents are less active than the generations before us.Most people were working manually in most household chores,now we have machines which help us work our chores faster and a bit easier. And this might be weakening us and in turn weaken our children too.

Not to mention the exposure of children to so much chemical elements which were not present before.The very air we breathe has elements of chemicals we use in our day to day life.

[frangipanis]

Hi there,

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the argument we've made our lives too sterile and our immune systems are weakening as a result... but I remember reading a few years ago that an increase of asthma sufferers amongst children was likely caused by carpets having been more widely used in homes than ever before. So when my son's friend who suffers from asthma stayed with us a few days, I thoroughly cleaned and vacuumed before he arrived. On the whole though, I do think we've become overly concerned about discinfecting everything and that in itself creates other problems... catch 22, eh?

I agree with you completely that kids are better off spending more time outdoors and not worrying too much about cleanliness. We lived near a beach on the far south coast of NSW for a couple of years and across from a lagoon where my son and his friends would disappeared everyday after school and on weekends. And as a child, groups of us bare-footed kids would walk down to the local creek catching tadpoles... that was a time when parents weren't so afraid to let their kids run free.

I didn't know you had children firmbeliver. How many do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

[firmbeliever]

Just one... yet:)

[frangipanis]

Yet?? Lol

Do you mean you're expecting your first baby, or have one child and hope for more? :)

[firmbeliever]

I have a 3 year old but hope to have one or two more.:)

[frangipanis]

Lovely, three year olds are a lot of work and lots of fun... also very cute :)

[N0help4u]

I agree that we have become too phobic on germs and with everything having to be so sterile our immune systems are weaker. I remember always hearing that we need some exposure to some things to strengthen our immune system. I also remember always hearing things like, ''he was never sick a day in his life, then at the age of 38 he got the flu and died". Parents use to take their kids around a kid that had chicken pox or measles so they would get them and it would be done and over.
They say that the anti bacterial soaps cause the bacteria to mutate so they really aren't as good as they claim.
I agree that a lot more problems are happening to people because of formaldahyde and other chemicals in carpets and other materials than the old fashioned germs we had to deal with.
Sick Buildings and Toxic Mold
I also heard that roaches and dirtiness can and does contribute to asthma attacks.

[frangipanis]

Hi NOhelp4u, thanks for the interesting link. I wasn't aware of that. Even though my working conditions are better than most places as our building is kept in good condition and we're surrounded by trees, are near a creek and playing fields, I really don't enjoy sitting at a computer for too long. I tend to be a bit of gypsy and find all sorts of excuses to wander around the place, and as much as I know it annoys other people, I have to put the photocopier on energy saver when it's not in use. There are only one or two things I really can't tolerate, one being that I can't stand to any kind of electrical motor running in the background like exhaust fans, and for similar reasons, I hate having computers on all day. Apart from not being able to switch the computer off at my desk, most other things I can manage fairly well - and I have a good employer, which is lucky. Still, there's a lot we can't control since chemicals are so widely used.

By comparison and because I have to work, my house is often pretty chaotic (which I really don't like). My kids are having to learn to thrive on neglect and whenever I see the washing up hasn't been done, I tell myself we're being environmentally friendly :)

I loved being a stay at home mum, by the way. I was my own boss working to my own schedule so could mostly follow my instincts for what was needed.

Who's the cute baby in the photo, can I ask?