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HydroHybrid · May 30, 2008, 04:04 AM

I just purchased a hydrogen boost system. Figured it was worth a shot if I can get another 30-40% mileage off my gasoline engine. I hope to get 70 mpg when all is said and done. I have the 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid.

The system needs me to know where the O2 and MAP sensors are. The O2 sensor appears to be on the top of the exhaust system just behind the manifold (back side of the engine) but I have no idea where the MAP sensor is.

I also need a circuit that is 20-30 amps that will turn off with the Auto Stop. I was thinking of taping into the fuel pump power. The dealership suggests I tap into the fuse box and test the fuses for which system disconnects with the auto stop feature.

Can someone direct me to an engine schematic or explain where it is. I may have a mechanic do the work but would like to manage it myself if doable. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

RickMN · May 30, 2008, 09:19 PM

Under no circumstances should you tap into the fuel pump circuit--unless you like replacing a very expensive pump. You're asking quite a bit for any of us to pony up 50 pages of electrical diagrams. Be a sport, spend $10 on a 1 week subscription to eautorepair.com and download all the diagrams you need.

We'll all be real interested to know if you get even a 5MPG increase. From everything I've read about this system, it takes more energy to make the hydrogen than it provides to the engine. But hey, we'd love to be surprised.

HydroHybrid · May 31, 2008, 04:37 AM

Thanks RickMN. Will do. I was an avid reader of VW Maintenance for the Complete Idiot back in the 70's. Kept an old VW running for years. I'll get the diagrams from the web site.

I was thinking yesterday after the post, that the better way would be to add a relay switch that would steal just a small amount of juice but shut off the Hydrogen generator when needed. Tapping into another circuit anywhere to pull 20-30 amps would certainly create a major shift in the cars circuitry.

Jim

HydroHybrid · Jun 29, 2008, 05:10 AM

I am running into problems getting results. I have the hydrogen generator installed.

The next step is to install a Potentiometer between the MAP sensor and the computer to reduce fool the computer into thinking it has a higher fuel:air ratio than it really has so the hydrogen can have a true impact on the system.

I found a MAP sensor on the firewall but it does not seem to have the effect described in the Hydrogen system.

Is their a second MAP sensor in the 2003 Civic Hybrid or a MAF sensor to really manages the signal?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jim

Galveston1 · Jun 29, 2008, 02:02 PM

HydroHybrid, from what I am hearing the amp load will be more like 5. The trial I posted in the other thread was on a bone simple unit with no tweaking on anything. Keep in touch.

HydroHybrid · Jun 29, 2008, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

HydroHybrid, from what I am hearing the amp load will be more like 5. The trial I posted in the other thread was on a bone simple unit with no tweaking on anything. Keep in touch.

I will check the other thread... my amps are running at 20-25amp. I connected a relay switch using the fuel pump relay to manage the switch. The hydrogen cell is a six cell unit connected directly to the battery.

Jim

Galveston1 · Jun 29, 2008, 06:21 PM

Hydro, how many square inches of gap do you have in the electrode? I assume it is a multi-plate arrangement? What is the size of your engine? As I learn more, I will share info.

HydroHybrid · Jul 1, 2008, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Hydro, how many square inches of gap do you have in the electrode? I assume it is a multi-plate arrangement? What is the size of your engine? As I learn more, I will share info.

I do not have plans for the unit I bought. I do have an internal diagram that I could send you if you send my your email address.

Galveston1 · Jul 4, 2008, 09:26 AM

I can understand your frustration after spending big bucks and getting no results. Can I ask a couple of dumb questions? Have you made certain that the unit is actually producing gas? And this one is really weird, is there any possibility that you can use too much HHO? Is there an optimum amount for any given size engine, and more causes loss of effect? I ask because the installation that I know about only uses 5 stainless switch covers for electrodes and can't possibly produce nearly the amount of HHO that your unit produces, and it is on a somewhat larger engine. Just a thought.

HydroHybrid · Jul 5, 2008, 03:52 AM

Good questions...
I actually thought about igniting the end of the tube to see if it was producing gas. That will burn is just the gas coming out of the tube. I may melt the end of the tube some but I have extra. As far as too much, I would hope the seller has done his homework..!

The small number of stainless steel plates explains the low amps. Have you talk with your pastor's son to see how his mileage is holding up? I would be curious if after several months what his thoughts are. I am talking with my friend... currently out of town.

Thanks.. Jim

Galveston1 · Jul 6, 2008, 12:27 PM

Hi, Jim. I just heard from Geoff. He loves his generator, is getting 42 mpg, up from 28 mpg. Now he's trying to tweak it to get better. Who knows, maybe he will. I am ready to put one together IF I can find switch covers that are really 302 ss. I'v tried 2 suppliers so far, one was 407 ss,(magnetic) and the other was Supposed to be 302, but produced immediate orange red water when hooked up. When I get the right electrodes, the total expense will be undre $40, unless of course I have to go to some mfg co to get the proper steel.

HydroHybrid · Jul 7, 2008, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

I can understand your frustration after spending big bucks and getting no results. Can I ask a couple of dumb questions? Have you made certain that the unit is actually producing gas? And this one is really weird, is there any possibility that you can use too much HHO? Is there an optimum amount for any given size engine, and more causes loss of effect? I ask because the installation that I know about only uses 5 stainless switch covers for electrodes and can't possibly produce nearly the amount of HHO that your unit produces, and it is on a somewhat larger engine. Just a thought.

Interesting.. Yes it is producing HHO. I check it and yes.. what a pop that was. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else to do. I maybe lucky to have a water bath to filter the gas which is where the burning stopped. Dumb..

Jim

HydroHybrid · Jul 7, 2008, 08:11 AM

Great feed back. How does the Brown's gas get into the system? It sounds like it is set up different than mine.

Jim

Galveston1 · Jul 7, 2008, 04:58 PM

I haven't gotten to see the installation, but I think that these are just put into the intake airflow, probably as close to the throttle body or carb as possible.
Does your system use something other than tap water?

HydroHybrid · Jul 8, 2008, 05:38 AM

So, the actually brown liquid isn't injected into the fuel.. by HHO is added to the air mixture. Same here.

This system uses an electrolyte compound that is a strong alkaline solution. The seller has not shared the compound with me. He sells the plans. The solution does not freeze in the winter so it does not have to be removed from the car overnight.

Adding salt to a solution makes it conduct electricity better and prevents freezing. I wonder if the salt interferes with the electrolysis process.

Jim

Do you have a diagram of your system. I would love to see it.

Galveston1 · Jul 8, 2008, 09:47 AM

No liquid is put into the engine or fuel. HHO is also called "Brown's gas" after the man who discovered it.
If you happen to have AutoCad 14, I can send you a drawing, but I don't have a scanner. I can describe what I will build. It won't take long at all once I get the proper steel.
Your rated gas production depends on using the electrolyte, but I still think you are getting more than you need, so plain tap water would likely serve fine. Some are recommending either salt or KOA or even clorox. Stainless steel is not affected by any of these, as far as I know, so salt would keep it from freezing. It would leave a residue in your generator, though.
I will use 4" sewer pipe, schedule 40. Length determined by available space under the hood. The bottom is simply a cap. At the top of the pipe is a threaded adapter that will have a threaded plug. I will drill 1 hole in the center for the gas outlet, 1 small hole for electrode wire, which must be tightly cemented shut, and a 7/8" hole as close to the square top of the plug as possible. This hole is for the fill tube that will extend to within about 1/2" of the bottom and slightly above the top of the threaded plug. It will have to be carefully glued in place to be gas tight; there is no pressure though. Then there will be a very small hole in the filler tube right at the surface of the top of the threaded plug. This will keep the unit from being overfilled. The square on the plug is hollow underneath, and the gas outlet tube should extend below the inside surface as little as possible to give a little space when the unit is full of water. Of course, this has to be gas tight also. 3/4" cpvc (hot water) pipe is exactly 7/8" outside dia which makes it easy to drill a proper size hole. So an ell with a stub in the plug and enough to hook a hose to completes everything except the electrode.
I will make the electrode using 6 302 ss wall switch cover plates, modified slightly so that I can drill and tap #6 screws in one end. I may have to cut off the flanged end and alternate the ends. Spacers are common water hose washers, and a nylon bolt through the rectangular center hole holds it all together. Those are the same bolts that hold your toilet seat to the bowl. Of course, the screws and exposed wire have to be covered with something like JB Weld to keep them from being eaten up by electrolysis.
Well, that's just the most basic generator possible, and the gas is dumped into the intake air. So far, no one has explained how such a small amount of hydrogen can produce such dramatic results, but it seems to work. Now, if I can just find those doggone plates!

HydroHybrid · Jul 8, 2008, 01:30 PM

I don't suppose your AutoCad14 will print to pdf? It sounds very basic and simple to build with the right parts. I know a few people who may be able to open the file if you wouldn't mind sending it to me.

I have a feeling that all the pollution control devises and the hybrid features are keeping me from getting the same results.

Jim

Galveston1 · Jul 10, 2008, 03:57 PM

I really wonder if the pollution controls can even detect the HHO. After all, it burns completely so there should be no change in the exhaust. Well, that's what I think, anyway. The person you bought it from doesn't have any ideas?
I found correct steel. Did some testing, and it looks like 5 gaps (6 plates) are drawing about 10 amps. My amp meter is not very accurate, so that is only approximate.

HydroHybrid · Jul 17, 2008, 06:14 PM

Not doing too well here folks. I believe in the technology but I may have the wrong car to make it work. There are so many systems that make the hybrid function as it does. I believe I need to lean the Air/Fuel ratio some to get the benefit of the HHO system and I can not figure how to do that.

More in a few weeks...

Galveston1 · Aug 10, 2008, 06:39 PM

OK, everyone interested in this subject. I have learned what the problem is with some cars, especially later ones. If it has a mass airflow sensor (MAS) you need some additional electronics, specifically a circuit that controls the O2 sensor. That's the one in front of the catalitic converter. When you introduce HHO, it is fuel and raises the temperature of the exhaust gasses, then the computer pumps more gasoline in to cool it down to paramaters, and you lose any benefit of the HHO. Those cars with MAP apparently do not need any controller on the O2 sensor. The only thing is to not run the head temp too high. What I read recommends not more than 100 deg. F above normal. That's a quite a bit though. All this info and more is available from Run your car on water. Interesting stuff!

I learned this after I discovered that my Subaru didn't get any mileage improvement. I am going to test it on my '69 Skylark (350 V8)