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iconracr · May 29, 2008, 09:45 PM

I am at a loss and in total shock this week. Need direction and your opinion. We, out of the blue were hit head on.

On Sunday we were driving home from a ballet recital. We being Me, my DH and 2 small children. We were in a Toyota van. DH and I were talking about the evening with the kids and decided to fill the car up before the prices go up any more. :)

Here are the details as I remember them. I was sitting in the front. DH was driving on a State road in Florida, 2 good size lanes with a double line and lots of street lighting coming up on a 5 lane intersection. Speed was 40 mph. We got into the left turn lane when it opened up. The light was yellow and had just turned red. This is a larger intersection than normal. We were going slow to stop maybe 15 yards from the stop line. All of a sudden DH said, what is this guy doing on the wrong side of the road? Hold on. He turned the wheel to the left to avoid a straight head on and we were hit in our lane on the right front spun around, hit in the rear again and slid sideways facing the other direction on the other side of the road. Totally shocking. The kids were scared and crying. We sat for a minute to make sure everyone was OK. That is what happened.

The other driver huge a huge super duty newer truck on steroids towing an even larger boat. He didn't even come to our car to see if we were OK. After 5 min I got out of the car. The first thing he said, I was cut off. He started going to all the people in the area saying, did you see that guy who cut me off.

The officer who responded was a jerk. He didn't even check on us or the kids for 15min. Hello? We were the ones who were hit after he crossed the center line? Looking back I now realize the officer was thinking, I got to find the other truck.

The long and short. We did't see a car in front of us turning. If there was one, he was already in the intersection. The light was already yellow when we moved over and red by the time we were hit and we weren't even at the stop line. We knew the truck towing the boat had run a red light or chasing a yellow. He said someone turned left in front of him and he moved into our lane to avoid the other car. The officer refused to give him a citation and said we would have to take it up in court. I went back the next morning and took pictures. He didn't even brake until right before he hit us. It was like he was driving around someone who turned in front of him so he could get through the light and we were there.

We filled a claim with his insurance company and were denied. They said he wasn't at fault. Our car is totalled. Don't understand this. We were on our own side of the road and he hit us. Things that come to mind, he was driving way to fast to be towing so much weight behind him at night. And, the light was red.

Now what? I just want to get my van fixed and feel this just isn't fair to our family. Someone suggested small claims court. What do you think? Can someone really cross onto your side of the read and hit you and not be at fault? I don't get it. Suggestions?

Received the accident report. It is noted car 1 took off, the one we never saw. Car 2 took action to avoid him and crossed the center line hitting car 3 head on at 40mph. And, car 3, us was going 20 mph in the left lane. It is noted on the report that we said he ran a redlight. One witness saw the car cut him off but didn't notice the color of the light.

twinkiedooter · May 30, 2008, 04:51 AM

Have you taken your claim to your insurance company to get your car fixed?

froggy7 · May 30, 2008, 07:54 AM

I will say that something like that almost happened to me. I was sitting in a left turn lane, waiting to make my turn, on a road two lanes each direction with left turn lanes at the intersection. There were cars driving towards me in both lanes, this being a pretty busy intersection. And one of the cars, for some unknown reason, decided to switch lanes from the curb lane to the inside lane as it approached the intersection. That left the car that was already in the inside lane the option of getting sideswiped, or cutting over into the turn lane part of the intersection. So I'm suddenly staring at a car coming straight at me at high rate of speed, that hadn't been there seconds before. Thankfully in my case, the first car realized what was happening, got back in the curbside lane, the other car managed to get back in its lane before getting through the intersection, and nothing happened. But it was close, and I can see that something similar might have happened in your case. And if I had been hit, I wouldn't have blamed the car that hit me, but the one that did the unsafe lane change.

I'd be talking to your insurance agency about this, see what they can do.

progunr · May 30, 2008, 08:10 AM

Same question as the other responders, have you contacted your insurance company?

This is what you pay insurance for. It is up to your insurance company to fight the other insurance company, and to determine who has to pay who.

Small Claims court, most likely, won't allow you to sue in the amount needed to replace or repair you van, most are $3000.00 or less. If your damages are more than that, you would have to sue in Civil Court and be represented by an attorney. That could be VERY expensive.

Contact you agent, turn in the claim, and let the big boys battle each other.

iconracr · May 30, 2008, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Have you taken your claim to your insurance company to get your car fixed?

Yes and we don't have collision coverage so it was turned down. Thanks for your reply. Cheryl

DBmtgprocessor · May 30, 2008, 10:08 AM

Small claims in Florida is $5000. Did you get any phone numbers etc of any other witnesses? Without full coverage insurance on your side you are stuck with handling this yourself or hiring an attorney. If there was a mystery other car then yes that car can be at fault and all of the others involved would be responsible for their own repairs if that person is never found to put a claim against. The no fault laws in Florida only apply to injuries not to damages to the vehicles, but without insurance the result is the same you have to take them to court. I would suggest hiring an accident attorney, they usually only charge if they collect. At the very least they would do an initial consultation at no charge to find out if you have a case or not.

JudyKayTee · Jun 2, 2008, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by DBmtgprocessor

Small claims in Florida is $5000. Did you get any phone numbers etc of any other witnesses? Without full coverage insurance on your side you are stuck with handling this yourself or hiring an attorney. If there was a mystery other car then yes that car can be at fault and all of the others involved would be responsible for their own repairs if that person is never found to put a claim against. The no fault laws in florida only apply to injuries not to damages to the vehicles, but without insurance the result is the same you have to take them to court. I would suggest hiring an accident attorney, they usually only charge if they collect. At the very least they would do an initial consultation at no charge to find out if you have a case or not.

Don't know the law in Florida but in NY Attorneys will only take a case on a contingency basis if there are injuries; they will not work contingent on property damage. I don't know if there were any injuries.

If you were hit head on when you were totally in your lane, yes, the other party is at fault. Are the witnesses listed on the Police Report? If there were two vehicles involved, one is yours, one is his, one is a witness.

This isn't the first and won't be the last insurance company to deny coverage on the first round - if the damage is over the Small Claims limit, then you would have to hire an Attorney to pursue the matter.

If you would rather get it over quickly for the Small Claims limit, by all means take BOTH the other driver AND the insurance company to Small Claims Court.

Be aware that statements such as "From what I can remember," and "I think" will harm you. If you don't know 100%, don't say it. If your husband was the driver (and I believe he was) he is his own best witness because he KNOWS what happened.

I don't know that the color of the light matters if you were hit head on in your own lane of traffic!

I have asked that your posts be combined for ease and accuracy in answering.

Fr_Chuck · Jun 2, 2008, 07:08 PM

This is the problem, and yes, many insurance companies will almost always deny a claim if they think they can get away with it,
So why do they think they can get away, you don't have full coverage, so they know your insurance will not be sueing them. They know that you may,

So what do you have to do, Hire an attorney and sue them, there is little choice.

iconracr · Jun 2, 2008, 09:03 PM

Thanks for your reply. I believe you are right! They are playing a game. We were only in our own lane. Even the police report states that as well. Also, our claim that he ran a red light is quoted. Yes, all the people who witnessed the accident are listed on the report. The other driver got out right away and said, "you saw that guy in the white truck cut me off"? So that is what they said, it is only after I got a little upset that the officer made a note of the light. GEEEZ

After speaking with a few attorneys all of who agreed to take on our case. It would be in our best interest to file in Small Claims court and ask for costs and attorneys fee's. I contacted the state department of traffic and it was confirmed both lights each way turn red at the same time. The officer did note in his report, we didn't see "his" traffic light in his direction.

I have found several codes that may help us. Could you please shed some light, time is short. First the speed limit was 40 and the office said he was going 40mph. We were listed at 20mph but that seems a little fast since we were coming to a stop. The law states you must slow for all traffic intersections, he was going 40. Another one is about the limit being too fast for "conditions" and a reduced speed should be taken. Would the fact that he was driving the biggest super duty truck and Road and Track have published reports about this truck having reduced braking, He has owned it for 5 years now. AND... He was towing a 30+ foot boat? Would that be considered too fast for conditions? Or, Florida law states you can ONLY go left of center during an roadway obstacle if you, slow and yield the right of way? We were, even after the first hit completely on our side and still 10 years shy of the stop line in the intersection. It is totally possible the other car was in the intersection waiting the turn, you know the other car we did't see. Then, the light turned yellow. We came alone when it was turning from yellow to red. We never saw the car in question only this HUGE truck coming straight at us on our side of the road. It seemed he never slowed until right before he hit us. When I went back the next morning, very short, strong skid marks. Like he was racing a yellow in a 3 plus ton truck towing another ton, I think he was planning to go around the other car and didn't expect to see us, he was very dark.

Any suggestion on how to proceed? We are without a car and would like to file this this week. All we want is our van repaired. It is a huge hardship for our family.

Thank you for all the replies. Cheryl

froggy7 · Jun 2, 2008, 09:37 PM

You can take this to court, and get what ever you are awarded. Be aware that getting the judgement is the easy part. You will have to figure out how to actually get the money from the other driver. And, if he did swerve into your lane to avoid a collision with someone who cut him off, then the accident wasn't his fault, even though he was the one who hit you. If he can convince the court that the accident happened that way, then you may not get anything. Which is why you should have collision on your car. And finally, the maximum you can be awarded is the amount to fix the damages, or the value of the car, whichever is lower. (For example, if you have 5,000 in damage, but the Kelly Blue Book value is 2,000 for the car, you will be awarded the 2,000.) Which I only mention since most people drop collision insurance when the car is relatively old, and the cost to carry the insurance is not worth it compared to the car's value.

Which is a long way of saying, you can file, and get a judgment, but you'd best be making contingency plans in case it proves difficult to get the money after you have the judgement.

JudyKayTee · Jun 3, 2008, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by iconracr

Thanks for your reply. I believe you are right! They are playing a game. We were only in our own lane. Even the police report states that as well. Also, our claim that he ran a red light is quoted. Yes, all the people who witnessed the accident are listed on the report. The other driver got out right away and said, "you saw that guy in the white truck cut me off"? So that is what they said, it is only after I got a little upset that the officer made a note of the light. GEEEZ

After speaking with a few attorneys all of who agreed to take on our case. It would be in our best interest to file in Small Claims court and ask for costs and attorneys fee's. I went ahead and contacted the state department of traffic and it was confirmed both lights each way turn red at the same time. The officer did note in his report, we didn't see "his" traffic light in his direction.

I have found several codes that may help us. Could you please shed some light, time is short. First the speed limit was 40 and the office said he was going 40mph. We were listed at 20mph but that seems a little fast since we were coming to a stop. The law states you must slow for all traffic intersections, he was going 40. Another one is about the limit being too fast for "conditions" and a reduced speed should be taken. Would the fact that he was driving the biggest super duty truck and Road and Track have published reports about this truck having reduced braking, He has owned it for 5 years now. AND... He was towing a 30+ foot boat? Would that be considered too fast for conditions? Or, Florida law states you can ONLY go left of center during an roadway obstacle if you, slow and yield the right of way? We were, even after the first hit completely on our side and still 10 years shy of the stop line in the intersection. It is totally possible the other car was in the intersection waiting the turn, you know the other car we did't see. Then, the light turned yellow. We came alone when it was turning from yellow to red. We never saw the car in question only this HUGE truck coming straight at us on our side of the road. It seemed he never slowed until right before he hit us. When I went back the next morning, very short, strong skid marks. Like he was racing a yellow in a 3 plus ton truck towing another ton, I think he was planning to go around the other car and didn't expect to see us, he was very dark.

Any suggestion on how to proceed? We are without a car and would like to file this this week. All we want is our van repaired. It is a huge hardship for our family.

Thank you for all the replies. cheryl

If he hit you head on in YOUR LANE, the rest of this does not matter and only confuses the issues - you aren't suing for medical bills or pain and suffering, right? You are suing for damage to your vehicle.

He was in your lane, he hit you head on - that's all you need to prove. How and why doesn't matter in this case. Even if the light had been green for him, he's supposed to be driving in his lane, not yours. If you had hit in the middle of the intersection, then why he didn't stop MIGHT be important but not in this case.

Once, again, the "I think's" only confuse the case - stick to what you know which is: he hit you head on in your lane of traffic. I would be interested in why his insurance denied the claim - what did they say? Did you ask for the denial in writing? Might be a good idea.

The only thing that gives me pause - and I haven't gone back to your initial post, this is from memory, I believe you said your husband was in the turning lane (your turning lane) and either swerved or pulled to his left to avoid the collision - ? He was still totally in his lane, right?

Fr_Chuck · Jun 3, 2008, 05:08 AM

Judy is correct, all of the issues of what he said, ( does not matter) even if a car cut him off, he is still liable for hitting you. Does not matter if the light was green or red, if he hit you while you were sitting in your lane.

You need to make this into about two sentences and leave out any little bit if info you are not 100 percent sure on. The rest only confuses the story.

We were sitting at the light. His truck came straight at us, we tried to move and he hit us. That is it,

froggy7 · Jun 3, 2008, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Judy is correct, all of the issues of what he said, ( does not matter) even if a car cut him off, he is still liable for hitting you. Does not matter if the light was green or red, if he hit you while you were sitting in your lane.

You need to make this into about two sentences and leave out any little bit if info you are not 100 percent sure on. The rest only confuses the story.

We were sitting at the light. His truck came straight at us, we tried to move and he hit us. That is it,

Doesn't it matter if he was taking evasive action because of another car? In which case the fault for the accident goes to the car that caused it? Like if he was sitting at the light and got rear-ended and forced into the car in front of him, doesn't the person at the back get sued for the damage of the car at the front? Or is this one of those cases where she sues him, and it's up to him to sue the driver of the other car for his damages, which include paying her?

JudyKayTee · Jun 3, 2008, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by froggy7

Doesn't it matter if he was taking evasive action because of another car? In which case the fault for the accident goes to the car that caused it? Like if he was sitting at the light and got rear-ended and forced into the car in front of him, doesn't the person at the back get sued for the damage of the car at the front? Or is this one of those cases where she sues him, and it's up to him to sue the driver of the other car for his damages, which include paying her?

I think you were addressing FrChuck but I'll jump in here, too - a lot depends in general on whether it's a comparative negligence State. At trial the phantom cars or "he/she forced me to take evasive action" claims are rough to prove. The questions usually involve whether there was time to attempt to stop or whether the driver panicked, things of that nature. The OP would have an action against BOTH other vehicles.

One of the most difficult investigations I have had is a woman driving, 2 lanes (1 in each direction), 55 mph zone, van coming toward her begins to drift into her lane, she swerves to her LEFT top avoid him, crosses into oncoming traffic, hit the vehicle behind the van - and a child in that vehicle is killed. Woman is found responsible because her evasive action caused the accident - the van never touched her. NYS is comparative negligence and I believe it settled 85% her, 15% van. She could have served right (or so thought the jury). If she had swerved right she probably would have collided with the van.

In a rear ender (in NYS) you have an action against the car that hit you as well as the car that hit that car and forced it into you. The car in the middle - assuming you were stopped, you didn't spike your brakes - is "usually" held harmless (not at fault).

Fr_Chuck · Jun 3, 2008, 11:00 AM

And even if there was a car that he turned to miss, his speed, or handling of the vechilce was as such that he crossed into another lane of traffic, so he would still be held liable for the accident, unless he can prove beyond a doubt that there was another car and that his movement was what a normal person was doing, and that he was not going too fast and acted dangerously in his movement.

Had the mystery car hit them, pushing them into the other car, that is another issue.