[spitvenom]

Hilary's former Pastor Rev. William Procanick was convicted in Feb. of Molesting a 7 year old girl at his house and he lied under oath in court about this. So does this mean Hilary will lie under oath and molest children also? I say that because everyone thinks Obama will follow the lead of his pastor so the same argument can be made against Hilary. So what is worst Telling the truth about the American government or lying under oath and molesting a 7 year old girl? Thoughts anyone

Judge to ex-pastor: 'You lied' - Utica, NY 13501 - The Observer-Dispatch

[Choux]

John McSame accepted the endorsement of "Rev." Hagee the fundiEv pastor who said that New Orleans was destroyed by "GodAlmighty" for its sinning ways.

Hagee is saying that GOD DAMNED NEW ORLEANS.

To me, all these right wing ministers are the same... ignorant liars attempting to speak for GodAlmighty... and damning all kinds of stuff in America. There are lots of examples of this kind of hatespeak from the Robertson and Fawell camps over the years.

:D:D:D

[spitvenom]

That's funny about McSame I wonder if he mentioned that while he was walking around New Orleans telling everyone the government let them down.

[speechlesstx]

I guess that depends, did Procanick's child-abusing ways influence Hillary's political viewpoint? Was she supportive of his abuse for 20 years? How much influence did Hagee have on McCain? Seems like we're talking about apples and oranges here to me.

[DaBaAd]

These injurous pastors said and did everything on their own accord. It shows the shame they carry and bellow to their congregations. Neither Hillary nor Obama should take the rap for their actions.

Source below from : Is It Hillary's Turn to 'Denounce and Reject' a Problematic Pastor? | Election 2008 | AlterNet

"The blogs are talking about it, but the mainstream news is not. Still, this is interesting. Blogs such as AdvanceAmericablog, commondreams.org, the National Journal’s Hotline, and wakeupfromyourslumber.com are talking about the scandal that has enveloped the former Pastor of the Clintons, but it appears only the Utica, NY newspaper is covering the story. The rest of the mainstream media is silent. Perhaps the story isn’t divisive enough for the mainstream media to take notice. Of course, it is as unfair to blame Hillary Clinton for her former pastor’s abuses just as it is unfair to blame Barack Obama for Rev. Wright. Still, that means the mainstream media is far more enamored of condemning Obama for his Rev. Wright’s tirades about 9/11 and race than it is concerned with the plight of a seven year old girl abused by Hillary Clinton’s former pastor."

[NeedKarma]

McSame must have a hate on for Catholics since he respects the good reverend Hagee.

[Fr_Chuck]

Are you sure Bill was not a member of that church, sounds more like him,

[tomder55]

Do I think Evita will lie under oath ? Lol... with out a doubt. But that has nothing to do with the issue you raise. If her pastor bragged about it on the pulpit and published a dvd of it for distribution... or perhaps espoused a philosophy that indicated such perversion was acceptable ;and Hillary did not either openly speak out against it ;or at very least walked out of the parish never to return then yes I would have to conclude that she condoned such action.

[tomder55]

For those o you wondering about McCain and his faith Karl Rove gave some insight into McCain in an op ed he penned.

Getting to Know John McCain - WSJ.com

He retells a story from McCain's roomy at the Hanoi Hilton .

Mr. Day relayed to me one of the stories Americans should hear. It involves what happened to him after escaping from a North Vietnamese prison during the war. When he was recaptured, a Vietnamese captor broke his arm and said, "I told you I would make you a cripple."

The break was designed to shatter Mr. Day's will. He had survived in prison on the hope that one day he would return to the United States and be able to fly again. To kill that hope, the Vietnamese left part of a bone sticking out of his arm, and put him in a misshapen cast. This was done so that the arm would heal at "a goofy angle," as Mr. Day explained. Had it done so, he never would have flown again.

But it didn't heal that way because of John McCain. Risking severe punishment, Messrs. McCain and Day collected pieces of bamboo in the prison courtyard to use as a splint. Mr. McCain put Mr. Day on the floor of their cell and, using his foot, jerked the broken bone into place. Then, using strips from the bandage on his own wounded leg and the bamboo, he put Mr. Day's splint in place.

Years later, Air Force surgeons examined Mr. Day and complimented the treatment he'd gotten from his captors. Mr. Day corrected them. It was Dr. McCain who deserved the credit. Mr. Day went on to fly again.

Another story I heard over dinner with the Days involved Mr. McCain serving as one of the three chaplains for his fellow prisoners. At one point, after being shuttled among different prisons, Mr. Day had found himself as the most senior officer at the Hanoi Hilton. So he tapped Mr. McCain to help administer religious services to the other prisoners.
Today, Mr. Day, a very active 83, still vividly recalls Mr. McCain's sermons. "He remembered the Episcopal liturgy," Mr. Day says, "and sounded like a bona fide preacher." One of Mr. McCain's first sermons took as its text Luke 20:25 and Matthew 22:21, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Mr. McCain said he and his fellow prisoners shouldn't ask God to free them, but to help them become the best people they could be while serving as POWs. It was Caesar who put them in prison and Caesar who would get them out. Their task was to act with honor.

Another McCain story, somewhat better known, is about the Vietnamese practice of torturing him by tying his head between his ankles with his arms behind him, and then leaving him for hours. The torture so badly busted up his shoulders that to this day Mr. McCain can't raise his arms over his head.
One night, a Vietnamese guard loosened his bonds, returning at the end of his watch to tighten them again so no one would notice. Shortly after, on Christmas Day, the same guard stood beside Mr. McCain in the prison yard and drew a cross in the sand before erasing it. Mr. McCain later said that when he returned to Vietnam for the first time after the war, the only person he really wanted to meet was that guard.

Mr. Day recalls with pride Mr. McCain stubbornly refusing to accept special treatment or curry favor to be released early, even when gravely ill. Mr. McCain knew the Vietnamese wanted the propaganda victory of the son and grandson of Navy admirals accepting special treatment. "He wasn't corruptible then," Mr. Day says, "and he's not corruptible today."

The stories told to me by the Days involve more than wartime valor.
For example, in 1991 Cindy McCain was visiting Mother Teresa's orphanage in Bangladesh when a dying infant was thrust into her hands. The orphanage could not provide the medical care needed to save her life, so Mrs. McCain brought the child home to America with her. She was met at the airport by her husband, who asked what all this was about.

Mrs. McCain replied that the child desperately needed surgery and years of rehabilitation. "I hope she can stay with us," she told her husband. Mr. McCain agreed. Today that child is their teenage daughter Bridget.
I was aware of this story. What I did not know, and what I learned from Doris, is that there was a second infant Mrs. McCain brought back. She ended up being adopted by a young McCain aide and his wife.

"We were called at midnight by Cindy," Wes Gullett remembers, and "five days later we met our new daughter Nicki at the L.A. airport wearing the only clothing Cindy could find on the trip back, a 7-Up T-shirt she bought in the Bangkok airport." Today, Nicki is a high school sophomore. Mr. Gullett told me, "I never saw a hospital bill" for her care.

A few, but not many, of the stories told to me by the Days have been written about, such as in Robert Timberg's 1996 book "A Nightingale's Song." But Mr. McCain rarely refers to them on the campaign trail. There is something admirable in his reticence, but he needs to overcome it.
Private people like Mr. McCain are rare in politics for a reason. Candidates who are uncomfortable sharing their interior lives limit their appeal. But if Mr. McCain is to win the election this fall, he has to open up.
Americans need to know about his vision for the nation's future, especially his policy positions and domestic reforms. They also need to learn about the moments in his life that shaped him. Mr. McCain cannot make this a biography-only campaign – but he can't afford to make it a biography-free campaign either. Unless he opens up more, many voters will never know the experiences of his life that show his character, integrity and essential decency.

[progunr]

Sorry, I have to agree with the previous post, what we have here, is apples and oranges.

It is one thing to be a member of a church where a pastor is secretly a pedophile.

It is a totally different thing to be a member of a church where the pastor spews his hatred and venom of not only the USA but of whites in general. To not only be a member, but a close personal confidant, a spiritual leader, a pastor who so moves you that you title your book from one of his sermons. To have him marry you, baptize your children, and consult with over problems that you may be facing.

One just has to look at the turnaround Obama has taken in just the last 48 hours. From, well, he's just kind of like the old uncle who say things at times that are a little out there?
To his condemnation of the man yesterday, now, claiming to be so outraged by the comments that he claimed he never heard, in over 20 years.

Cmon' people, just take a quick inventory of who this guy has as friends and associates, and add the fact that even the terrorist groups support him for OUR president!

Just knowing that Hamas WANTS OBAMA is enough to turn me away. Why do you think they would want Obama in charge of this country? What might they be looking to gain with
Him running the United States? Those are serious questions and the answers could have serious consequences.

[BABRAM]

Hilary's former Pastor Rev. William Procanick was convicted in Feb. of Molesting a 7 year old girl at his house and he lied under oath in court about this. So does this mean Hilary will lie under oath and molest children also? I say that because everyone thinks Obama will follow the lead of his pastor so the same argument can be made against Hilary. So what is worst Telling the truth about the American government or lying under oath and molesting a 7 year old girl? Thoughts anyone

Judge to ex-pastor: 'You lied' - Utica, NY 13501 - The Observer-Dispatch

It's normal for Clinton campaigns to point fingers and then not expect to be held accountable to the same standards.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Clinton: 'Not relevant' last time I went to church, fired gun « - Blogs from CNN.com


Clinton: 'Not relevant' last time I went to church, fired gun


"SCRANTON, Pennsylvania (CNN) – After a weekend spent making direct appeals to gun owners and church goers, Hillary Clinton said Sunday a query about the last time she fired a gun or attended church services "is not a relevant question in this debate” over Barack Obama's recent comments on small town Americans.

“We can answer that some other time,” Clinton said at a press conference held in a working class neighborhood here. “This is about what people feel is being said about them. I went to church on Easter. I mean, so?”

Clinton described the furor surrounding Obama's remarks as “about how people look at the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party leadership.”

“We have been working very hard to make it clear that we have millions of Democrats who are church going and gun-owning,” she said. “And we are tired of having Republicans, or frankly our own Democrats, give any ammunition to Republicans because what happens then is Republicans take advantage of the situation.”


She called the current imbroglio “an important moment for Democrats” and challenged Obama to further explain what he meant by his comments, which she reiterated were “elitist and divisive.”

Pressed on whether she truly believes Obama is an elitist, Clinton called him “a good man,” but recalled the narratives of the 2000 and 2004 president election.

“You don't have to think back too far to remember that good men running for president were viewed as being elitist and out of touch with the values and lives of millions of Americans,” she said."

Why who'd dare ask her highness, "Hillary Clinton" when she last attended a church last or fired a gun! She's such an elitist hypocrite that her campaign reeks.


John Hagee's McCain Endorsement Sparks Uproar - Politics on The Huffington Post

According to Republican negative campaigning strategy, a candidate is definitely held accountable due to their pastor or former pastor's personal views and actions, regardless if the candidate denounces or disagrees with him. In fact, McCain went out of his way in a national press conference to announce the support of one John Hagee and McCain doesn't even attend service at Hagee's church. Oranges and apples, they are both fruit.

Ku Klux Klan and pro-Nazi groups support John McCain : Indybay

"The revelation that Senator McCain has the blessing of the two groups comes on the heels of the McCain campaign's recent statement that Hamas would probably prefer Senator Obama. With the news of these event, one Obama supporter commented, "Well, I guess the difference is that Hamas can't vote, but McCain will sure get all those Nazi votes.""

[tomder55]

Bobby ;the link you cite says that KKK leaders who do not want their names revealed support McCain ? Do you consider this source credible ? That is really a stretch .

In the case of Hamas supporting Obama ,it was one of their most public leaders ;Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip ;who stated his preference for Obama during a live on air radio broadcast to a national audience. Initially Obama strategist David Axelrod publicly called the endorsement a compliment because he compared Obama to JFK.

Now you may say that Obama has made his position on Hamas clear ,that he said when former President Jimmy Carter went on his ME junket that Hamas was a "terrorist organization" that should remain isolated until it renounces violence and recognizes Israel. But Yousuf had an answer to that also:

"I understand American politics, and this is the season for elections, and everybody tries to sound like he's a friend of the Israelis "

That of course is very similar to the charge that Rev Wright made of Obama;that he was a politician and had to say what is necessary.
Yousuf went on to say that in Hamas' view, Obama has "a vision to change America to make it in a position to lead the world community but not with humiliation and arrogance."
Which of course echos what the Democrats are saying about him also.

[speechlesstx]

McSame must have a hate on for Catholics since he respects the good reverend Hagee.

I pointed out long ago that McCain repudiated any anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic sentiments as soon as criticism was leveled against him. He didn't hem and haw and wait and justify his membership in Hagee's church (since he isn't a member) or call him his mentor:

"We've had a dignified campaign, and I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics," McCain said.

"I sent two of my children to Catholic school. I categorically reject and repudiate any statement that was made that was anti-Catholic, both in intent and nature. I categorically reject it, and I repudiate it," McCain said.

"And we can't have that in this campaign," McCain said. "We're trying to unite the country. We're uniting the country, not dividing it."

He was responding to one critic in particular, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, who raised the issue in a Thursday conference call with reporters.

"She made the attack. I am responding by saying that I am against discrimination and anti-Semitism, anti-Catholic, anything racial, and I have proved that on the campaign trail," McCain said.

Well, obviously I repudiate any comments that are anti-semitic or anti-Catholic, racist, any other. And I condemn them and I condemn those words that Pastor Hagee apparently…that Pastor Hagee wrote. I will say that he said that his words were taken out of context, he defends his position. I hope that maybe you’d give him a chance to respond. He says he has never been anti-Catholic, but I repudiate the words that create that impression. I will say, I’d like to say on his behalf, he’s been a very strong supporter of the state of Israel and when we were doing the No Surrender tour, he came and spoke on behalf of not surrendering in Iraq. So, but any comments that are made that are in anyway offensive then I repudiate those for all of the obvious reasons...

[NeedKarma]

He threw him under a bus? How nice.

But we should scared that Hagee endorses McCain, he must find McCain's stances sympathetic to his beliefs, in the same same vein that people are linking the hamas endorsement to Obama. Can't wait 'till McCain comes out of hiding, it will be fun. :)

[speechlesstx]

Bobby ;the link you cite says that KKK leaders who do not want their names revealed support McCain ? Do you consider this source credible ? That is really a stretch .

Tom, if you look at their "About page" it turns out they're about 'media activism.' Perhaps they picked up the story from Pam's comments at Fox News.

[magprob]

For those o you wondering about McCain and his faith Karl Rove gave some insight into McCain in an op ed he penned.

Getting to Know John McCain - WSJ.com

He retells a story from McCain's roomy at the Hanoi Hilton .

WOW! Now John McCain has morphed into John Wayne. I'm getting warm and fuzzy at the thought of 100 years more war. After all, that is where the best comes out in men.

[tomder55]

It should be clear by now that the 100 year war mantra being repeated by his critics is a distortion of what McCain said.


The stories in the article are factual ulike those of Hillary dodging bullets or the myth of the transformational candidate Obama. Actually it does not even address all of McCain's heroics .Nor do they tell the complete story of the man. They just tell a significant chapter in his life .You will not hear these stories from McCain so we have to rely on others to tell the truth of this genuine American hero.

[NeedKarma]

this genuine American hero.

LOL!

[magprob]

That sounded just like McCain to me. Was it not?

[NeedKarma]

That sounded just like McCain to me. Was it not?

Bush... McCain... same thing. Except that Bush was actually born in the U.S. whereas McCain is an immigrant.