[meeper365]

4 words... Astrology is a JOKE!!

[Capuchin]

ordinaryguy, would the result be identical if instead of using a chart based around the "client"'s birthdate, you instead used a chart based around a completely random date? I'm not saying that the astrology you practice is useless, just that it's no more useful than doing the same based on a random set of numbers instead, therefor there really is no real merit in astrology, but instead the way you word things. Astrology is not the active ingredient?

[ordinaryguy]

ordinaryguy, would the result be identical if instead of using a chart based around the "client"'s birthdate, you instead used a chart based around a completely random date? I'm not saying that the astrology you practice is useless, just that it's no more useful than doing the same based on a random set of numbers instead, therefor there really is no real merit in astrology, but instead the way you word things. Astrology is not the active ingredient?

An astrological chart can be calculated for any moment in time at any point on the earth's surface. It is an accurate diagram of the full circle of the sky (above and below the horizon) along the plane of the ecliptic, showing the positions of the other bodies of the solar system against the backdrop of the twelve zodiacal constellations. People can and do erect charts for the place and time of many other events besides birth (marriages, business startups, etc).

If I understand, you're suggesting that there's nothing particularly unique about a specific place and time that has significance for an individual, and therefore, a chart calculated for some other "random" place and time would work just as well as the basis for a personal exploration of meaning and insight about the significance and possibilities of whatever begins at that point. All I can say is that you don't have to look at very many charts to realize that every one really is unique, and even relatively small differences in time or location can have quite different symbolic implications.

I suppose it's possible that there could be value in trying to make an analogy between the view of the solar system at some other time and from some other point of view than the one we actually occupy (or want to focus on), but if we're going to go to the trouble to erect a chart and give our attention to understanding it's symbolic (analogical) meaning for us personally, I don't know why we'd do that, and I don't know how we'd actually settle on a time and place that is appropriately "random" to start from.

The basic thrust of your question seems to be that whatever value may arise from the exercise comes not from the astrological symbolism, but from "the way you word things". But the way I word things depends on what the symbolism is, and it would be very different for a chart erected for a different time and place.

I have to go do my day, but if you're interested, I'll be happy to continue the discussion.

[sweet_orange]

I really do not decide for or against something I haven't cared to thoroughly study about.. but as for me,I never ever open the newspapers 2 c wht's in there.That's not what astrology means,IMO.Since I'm totally addictd to studying people's mannersims,behaviours and trying to gauge how a person's mind works (I'm not saying I am perfect at it,too) I definitely find astrology helpful.Though I'm only a novice,and haven't read much.. but I feel like I have a certain knack of it.It just happens that I may be able to gauge what are d strongest influences on a person (I'm like 60-70% times right).. n of course,we must know that d sunsign isn't d ultimate thing to a person.. there are lots of other permutations and combinations-and also one must remember,that there is something called the 'human will' that is stronger than any other force known.So,these are just things that help you.Don't base your life upon them.What astrology has really helped me at is this,though-tolerance.I can better understand a person's motives by knowing their influences.So,basically I use it for psychological analysis,because if you c,I do find things correlating many-a-times.. And remember,I also use body language,usage of words,gait etc to evaluate things.Astrology is just a part of it,something which I just know a wee bit about!

[sarnian]

The question 'Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?' can only be answered to with : never ever has there been any evidence for astrology being more than a means to fill daily papers, magazines, or the pocket of the crooked.
The location of planets on the moment of birth has no proved influence on the life of any individual.

Astrology is at best a belief. Astronomy is a field of science. And never the two will meet !

[ordinaryguy]

The question 'Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?' can only be answered to with : never ever has there been any evidence for astrology being more than a means to fill daily papers, magazines, or the pocket of the crooked.

This answer says a lot about your lack of knowledge of the subject, but nothing at all about the subject itself.

The location of planets on the moment of birth has no proved influence on the life of any individual.

It's not about influence in a cause-and-effect sense of the word. It's about analogy and symbolism.

Astrology is at best a belief.

No, it's not a belief in the religious sense. It's a tool, a language, a model of personality that you can choose to use or not. If it seems foolish to you, ignore it. Don't waste your time displaying your ignorance of the subject by making uninformed pronouncements about it.

[sarnian]

I completely disagree with you, dear ordinaryguy !

The board question posted was clear : "Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?"

And my anwer was clear also : " (that) can only be answered to with : never ever has there been any evidence for astrology being more than a means to fill daily papers, magazines, or the pocket of the crooked.
The location of planets on the moment of birth has no proved influence on the life of any individual.
Astrology is at best a belief. Astronomy is a field of science. And never the two will meet ! "

You implied that "I lack any knowledge on astrology".
But that is incorrect. I know what astrology is all about - more than enough to keep me skeptic.
I do not talk down the belief in astrology. I simply stated that there has never been any evidence on the value and correctness of astrology. If you disagree with that, why attack my views?
Why don't you provide the evidence in favour of astrology instead? - I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO SO !

You stated that "astrology is not a religious belief".
I never stated that astrology is a religious belief. You simply twist my words !

You state that ''it's not about influence in a cause-and-effect sense of the word. It's about analogy and symbolism''.
But that has nothing to do with the topic question, which is about accurate predictions from astrology.

You state that "astrology is a tool, a language, a model of personality that you can choose to use or not."
But that has neither to do with the topic question, which still is about accurate predictions from astrology.

You state that "If it seems foolish to you, ignore it."
But I did not say anything like that : you only imply that! And besides that : why should I ignore it even IF I would find it foolish?

You stated "Don't waste your time displaying your ignorance of the subject by making uninformed pronouncements about it.
But I do not make uninformed pronouncements on astrology. You seem to make uninformed attacks on other views.
Once more : there is no scientific evidence of any kind that astrology has any validity.

AstroLOGY is at best a belief. AstroNOMY is a field of science. And never the two will meet !
And I have all the right to state that on a SCIENTIFIC BOARD like the ASTRONOMY BOARD.

[ordinaryguy]

I completely disagree with you, dear ordinaryguy !

The board question posted was clear : "Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?"

Well, I don't think we disagree completely. We do agree that the answer to the question as stated is, "No". The difference is that I think astrology can be useful for other (more important) things, while you seem to think that it has no validity or usefulness for any legitimate purpose whatsoever. Have I misinterpreted you?

The location of planets on the moment of birth has no proved influence on the life of any individual.

Your use of the term "influence" implies that you think astrology presupposes a cause-and-effect relationship. I'm saying that there are ways to approach the subject that don't make such an assumption, that's all.

I know what astrology is all about

What is it "all about", in your view? Because your comments seem intended to debunk the view that it's all about prediction and causation.

I agree that many people assume that's what it's about, and some people do try to use it for that purpose. All I'm suggesting here is that there are other approaches to the subject that don't make that assumption, and that such methods can be useful for other purposes.

I do not talk down the belief in astrology. I simply stated that there has never been any evidence on the value and correctness of astrology. If you disagree with that, why attack my views?

I'm not attacking your views, I agree that it has no "value and correctness" for predicting the future. I'm just pointing out that it can have value for other purposes.

Why don't you provide the evidence in favour of astrology instead? - I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO SO !

OK, here's the testimony of someone who says it was helpful to her (commenting on this post earlier in this thread):

AKaeTrue agrees: ordinaryguy helped me with this some time ago when I was going through a hard time in my life. The chart was extremely helpful and surprisingly accurate :-)

I never stated that astrology is a religious belief. You simply twist my words !

I didn't intend to twist your words. What did you mean by the statement "Astrology is at best a belief"?

You state that ''it's not about influence in a cause-and-effect sense of the word. It's about analogy and symbolism''.
But that has nothing to do with the topic question, which is about accurate predictions from astrology.
You state that "astrology is a tool, a language, a model of personality that you can choose to use or not."
But that has neither to do with the topic question, which still is about accurate predictions from astrology.

OK, I plead guilty to broadening the discussion beyond a simple yes-or-no answer to the original question. Is that forbidden?

As I've said, we do agree about the answer to the question as stated, if that's as far as the discussion is permitted to go.

You state that "If it seems foolish to you, ignore it."
But I did not say anything like that : you only imply that!

Are you saying that you don't think it's foolish? Surely you can see how I could have reached that conclusion based on what you said, and the overall tone of your post.

why should I ignore it even IF I would find it foolish?

Because it would be a waste of your precious life to devote your attention to foolish things.

And I have all the right to state that on a SCIENTIFIC BOARD like the ASTRONOMY BOARD.

I agree that the question doesn't belong on the astronomy board.

[sarnian]

Dear ordinaryguy

"The difference is that I think astrology can be useful for other (more important) things, while you seem to think that it has no validity or usefulness for any legitimate purpose whatsoever".

Isn't it strange that once again you can not support that usefulness claim? Nor the support for the validity of astrology?

The original board question was : "Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?"
I do not see any support from your side HOW that is possible, and HOW accurate such predictions would be.

"I'm just pointing out that it can have value for other purposes".

You claim that it "can have value", but without any support that is an empty claim.

"What did you mean by the statement "Astrology is at best a belief"?"

First you condemn that statement, now you ask what I meant with that : do you always follow that path?
A belief : something that is accepted without proof being provided for it's validity.
Where is the proof that the location of the planets at birth of a human being has any influence? What mysterious power would provide that influence?

"I agree that the question doesn't belong on the astronomy board"

Than why participate here at all? Why not ask admin to transfer it to a board where it belongs : OFF THE SCIENCE BOARDS !

[ordinaryguy]

Well, excUUUUUse me for livin'!

[ordinaryguy]

I'm not attacking your views, I agree that it has no "value and correctness" for predicting the future.

The original board question was : "Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?"
I do not see any support from your side HOW that is possible, and HOW accurate such predictions would be.

Since you either aren't reading or aren't understanding what I've said so far, I will say no more.

[sarnian]

Well, a fine moment than to address this board question once more :

'Is It Possible To Make Accurate Predictions From Astrology?'

As there is no scientific support for astrology to carry any validity, the answer can only be "NOT VERY LIKELY !".

Of course a prediction can be accurate by pure chance.
So predictions based on astrology can also be accurate by pure chance.
But there is no support for astrology to provide accurate predictions beyond pure chance.

To make accurate predictions it is essential to have proper insight in the entire process on which the prediction is targeted. Tea leaves, cards, astrology, etc. do not provide that insight (at least that has never been proved to be the case).

Astrology therefore can not be the basis for providing accurate predictions at large.

Posts on astrology belong on the Spirituality board, instead of on the Science - Astronomy board.
So for astrology have a look here! (Link)