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spencer4323 · Apr 4, 2008, 04:52 PM

What if my daughters father is paying childsupport but not giving my daughter emotional and physical support . He have not bought anything for her as for her birthday or Christmas . Also he missed 2 birthdays . He is not too far from me and he just makes excuses in seeing her knowingly he have some vacation/off-days . Should I file for full custody or not ?

JudyKayTee · Apr 4, 2008, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by spencer4323

What if my daughters father is paying childsupport but not giving my daughter emotional and physical support . He have not bought anything for her as for her birthday or Christmas . Also he missed 2 birthdays . He is not too far from me and he just makes excuses in seeing her knowingly he have some vacation/off-days . Should I file for full custody or not ?

Sure, you can always file for a change in custody. I just don't know what you would accomplish - you can't force him to be involved in her life.

Sounds like you pretty much have full custody, although not in the legal sense. Even if you get full custody, he WILL get visitation (unless he's a danger to her) and the situation will be the same.

Fr_Chuck · Apr 4, 2008, 05:11 PM

It sounds as if you basically have it since he does not do anything, But you can file, it does not mean a judge will give it. But he will still be assigned visitation

George_1950 · Apr 4, 2008, 05:28 PM

It costs to do that; it would be cheaper and perhaps more beneficial to "send" your kids a gift from their Dad, letting him know that you are doing this for him; and then have the kids send him a thank you note. Maybe something good will result.

asking · Apr 5, 2008, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by George_1950

It costs to do that; it would be cheaper and perhaps more beneficial to "send" your kids a gift from their Dad, letting him know that you are doing this for him; and then have the kids send him a thankyou note. Maybe something good will result.

I understand the motivation here is to make the child feel good--it's a good impulse. But I don't agree with it because it's fundamentally dishonest. First it is basically a lie to the child and will cause the child to have higher expectations of the dad than he is apparently ready to live up to. I think it will lead to disappointment and confusion, especially when the child thanks him and he can't remember what he gave her or something like that. Also, it encroaches on his freedom to not send a present--and puts him the position of either having to go along with the lie or expose the mother. I just think it's too weird and would only lead to confusion and angry feelings. The possibilities for it turning out badly are endless.
Asking

JudyKayTee · Apr 5, 2008, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by asking

I understand the motivation here is to make the child feel good--it's a good impulse. But I don't agree with it because it's fundamentally dishonest. First it is basically a lie to the child and will cause the child to have higher expectations of the dad than he is apparently ready to live up to. I think it will lead to disappointment and confusion, especially when the child thanks him and he can't remember what he gave her or something like that. Also, it encroaches on his freedom to not send a present--and puts him the position of either having to go along with the lie or expose the mother. I just think it's too weird and would only lead to confusion and angry feelings. The possibilities for it turning out badly are endless.
Asking

Got to agree here - I think the thought is a good one (trying to keep a relationship between father and child) but I agree that it is not a good idea to lie to the child. I think you keep trying to reinforce the child's self esteem without bad mouthing the other side. And I know it's very, very difficult.

And I think children see and realize and understand a lot more than adults give them credit for.

George_1950 · Apr 5, 2008, 07:19 AM

Actually, it happens in the 'best' of situations. One parent will be too busy, too preoccupied, maybe playing golf; and the other parent arranges parties, invitations, cake, dinner, etc. and they share credit for a wonderful time had by all. It takes effort and more than a vindictive, punitive heart that teaches selfishness.

JudyKayTee · Apr 5, 2008, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by George_1950

Actually, it happens in the 'best' of situations. One parent will be too busy, too preoccupied, maybe playing golf; and the other parent arranges parties, invitations, cake, dinner, etc., and they share credit for a wonderful time had by all. It takes effort and more than a vindictive, punitive heart that teaches selfishness.

I agree with you here but I still don't think sending a gift in the other parent's name, not telling the other parent, is the way to go.

And how do you handle a parent who just doesn't care and doesn't visit or call - I have no idea. I see what's posted on the board. The "partner" was a wonderful person... right up until they broke up and then they're all drug addicts, drunks and generally pond scum. Do people share this "information" with the child - probably. Good idea - certainly not.

I know when I was a kid I knew who legitimately liked me, who was spending time, the people I could trust and count on and the people I could not - without being told.

I don't know what the answer is.

George_1950 · Apr 5, 2008, 07:55 AM

But Judy, I do propose telling the missing Dad: "..."send" your kids a gift from their Dad, letting him know that you are doing this for him". It really is an attempt to shame him, or teach him how important he is to his daughters, and how much he means to them though he isn't acknowledging it.

asking · Apr 5, 2008, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by George_1950

but Judy, I do propose telling the missing Dad: "..."send" your kids a gift from their Dad, letting him know that you are doing this for him". It really is an attempt to shame him, or teach him how important he is to his daughters, and how much he means to them though he isn't acknowledging it.

It's fine to send gifts in a spouse's name in some situations, of course. No one could disagree with that. But I feel that this is a very different situation. The mother (and father if you include him by telling him) is still misleading the daughter about the father's feelings (unlike in a situation where a man simply wants a job delegated to his wife). This sets the daughter up for disappointment when she discovers the lie or finds that her father is not very interested in her after all. And what lesson does she learn about honest expressions of love and sincerity within families? At best, she'll get conflicting messages from him: "Here's a nice present, I'm thinking of you, but I won't visit you or talk to you." What is she to make of that?

I also don't think shaming this man would be effective. I seriously doubt it will make him behave better next time. It will just establish a pattern of the mother covering for him, which is bad for him, bad for the daughter and likely to make spencer4323 feel like she's betraying herself and her daughter. If the absent father's been shamed, he won't want to think about his daughter and will be LESS likely to do anything for her in the future. This is just my opinion and I understand that you disagree. But I feel very definite about it. I don't think love is something you can delegate or force.