[emery]

Hi, this question is for those familiar with Canadian law. If you are granted a conditional discharge in Ontario, do you anticipate there would be any problems entering the United States. Does anyone know what if anything needs to be done?

[excon]

Hello e:

I'm not sure why you don't think American law has anything to do with it. In fact, it's going to be American law that lets you in or not.

I don't know what you've been discharged from. I don't know what "discharge" means, especially if its "conditional". What are the conditions? Were you convicted of a crime? Are you no longer under supervision? Does "discharge" mean you WEREN'T convicted??

If you were never convicted, I think the Americans will let you in. However, if you were convicted, and it's now "discharged", I think they'll keep you out.

Plus, I don't think there's a thing you can do in Canada regarding your "discharge" that will affect what will happen at the border.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

[QUOTE=excon]Hello e:

I'm not sure why you don't think American law has anything to do with it. In fact, it's going to be American law that lets you in or not.

I don't know what you've been discharged from. I don't know what "discharge" means, especially if its "conditional". What are the conditions? Were you convicted of a crime? Are you no longer under supervision? Does "discharge" mean you WEREN'T convicted??

If you were never convicted, I think the Americans will let you in. However, if you were convicted, and it's now "discharged", I think they'll keep you out.

Plus, I don't think there's a thing you can do in Canada regarding your "discharge" that will affect what will happen at the border.



Both sides share a computer system - if the OP is on the Canadian computer for any reason he/she is on the American computer, too, and then they decide.

Entering the Country is a privilege, not a right, so it's up to them. I recently became aware of a person with a driving intoxicated CHARGE in Canada who was denied entry into the US - tried to fight it but had no grounds.

[emery]

When I said familiar with Canadian law it was because I meant familiarity with the term conditional discharge which means there have been findings of guilt but you have not been convicted of a crime. The question I have is because this discharge stays on the system for three years before it is removed, and it during the three years that I am first concerned with and then also after that. How can I find out if this would present a problem.

[excon]

Hello again, e:

I don't know.

In fact, I'm suffering the same problem with YOUR country. I think Canada won't let me in. They tell me there's a bureaucracy that I can apply with ahead of time... But, I've never had good success with bureaucracies - especially when their job is to look out for their country, and not me.

I'm sure we've got a comparable agency. However, given our paranoia, I doubt they'll give you permission ahead of time...

So, I think you're going to have to do what I'm going to have to do. And, that's drive to the border and see if I can cross.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

When I said familiar with Canadian law it was because I meant familiarity with the term conditional discharge which means there have been findings of guilt but you have not been convicted of a crime. The question I have is because this discharge stays on the system for three years before it is removed, and it during the three years that I am first concerned with and then also after that. How can I find out if this would present a problem.

Call INS and ask.

[emery]

What is INS?

Also, that was the same advice I received from others, drive to the border and see what happens.

[JudyKayTee]

What is INS?

Also, that was the same advice I received from others, drive to the border and see what happens.

Immigration and Naturalization - you don't have to give names. Just call, present the situation and ask the question. If it's a flat yes or no, you'll know. If it's a situation where it's case by case, then you can either have them check or go the border and find out.

[yghamel]

The bad news:

A conditional discharge is a finding of guilt and not a criminal conviction. Technically, you were never convicted but you did plead guilty, which in the eyes of the police and immigration and even some employers, is the same thing as being convicted.

If you travel to the border with a conditional discharge you can be sure that immigration is going to ask you about it and in most cases probably deny you entry. Once you are denied entry into the US, for a criminal record, you must apply for a waiver. The record is downloaded and kept forever.

The good news:

Conditional discharges only stay on your record for three years. That is, they only stay on CPIC for three years. CPIC is the system that displays and shares criminal records between police agencies and other countries.

Once your discharge has elapsed (3 year period) it is no longer available for viewing, at least not by Police and more importantly US border patrol.

Canada shares CPIC information with the US, but the information is only downloaded on a person to person basis. If you don't travel to the US for three years after you receive a discharge, they will never know it was there.

Conclusion:

Do not travel for three years. Wait until your discharge is done with. Perform a CPIC records search after the three years to make sure it is no longer showing and then try to enter the states. Cross your fingers and hopefully you'll be OK.

[JudyKayTee]

The bad news:

A conditional discharge is a finding of guilt and not a criminal conviction. Technically, you were never convicted but you did plead guilty, which in the eyes of the police and immigration and even some employers, is the same thing as being convicted.

If you travel to the border with a conditional discharge you can be sure that immigration is going to ask you about it and in most cases probably deny you entry. Once you are denied entry into the US, for a criminal record, you must apply for a waiver. The record is downloaded and kept forever.

The good news:

Conditional discharges only stay on your record for three years. That is, they only stay on CPIC for three years. CPIC is the system that displays and shares criminal records between police agencies and other countries.

Once your discharge has elapsed (3 year period) it is no longer available for viewing, atleast not by Police and more importantly US border patrol.

Canada shares CPIC information with the US, but the information is only downloaded on a person to person basis. If you don't travel to the US for three years after you receive a discharge, they will never know it was there.

Conclusion:

Do not travel for three years. Wait until your discharge is done with. Perform a CPIC records search after the three years to make sure it is no longer showing and then try to enter the states. Cross your fingers and hopefully you'll be ok.

The really bad news? This is a thread from 2008, long dead, should be closed. Why do you think Border Patrol has anything to do with this?

[yghamel]

It's an important topic. There isn't a lot of information on the web concerning "conditional and absolute discharges" and their effect on traveling to the US. So I don't think this thread should be closed.

US Border Patrol (US customs, Homeland Security etc etc.) has everything to do with the response to this person's question.

Under Canadian law, a discharge is not a criminal conviction and therefore a person with a discharge does not have a criminal record BUT

The US does not recognize Canadian law, when it comes to discharges or pardons.

If you were handed a discharge, despite what it means in Canadian law, the US considers it a conviction and will use it to deny entry into the US.

[JudyKayTee]

This is a Q and A board - the OP posted the question some time ago and has not been back.

The legal advice is the same - it's a case by case decision.

[Bobbio]

You can go anywhere you like.
There are two kinds of discharges in the eyes of the law- Absolute and Conditional. You can cross the border no problem since you actually don't have a conviction.
If asked about any convictions on a job application you can write NO as long as you only have a discharge (or two).
Only in court can they bring up a previous discharge should you be facing any charges from a new crime.

[JudyKayTee]

You can go anywhere you like.
There are two kinds of discharges in the eyes of the law- Absolute and Conditional. You can cross the border no problem since you actually don't have a conviction.
If asked about any convictions on a job application you can write NO as long as you only have a discharge (or two).
Only in court can they bring up a previous discharge should you be facing any charges from a new crime.

Please quote and post your source - I'm ex-Customs and I also cited the current law.

Kindly read what I posted and post what you have found to the contrary.

[Bobbio]

Pardons in Canada: How to Seal your Canadian Criminal Record

"A Discharge will automatically be purged 1 year after you received an Absolute Discharge or 3 years after you received a Conditional Discharge (provided you comply with the conditions imposed). You should request a copy of your criminal record to ensure the Discharge has been purged. There have been instances where discharges were mistakenly registered as a conviction and were not subsequently purged after the 1 or 3-year period.

NOTE: You may be inadmissible to the United States for having a Conditional Discharge."

I take this to mean that once the discharge has been successfully purged you are free to travel to the U.S.
Speaking from first hand experience here.


Rights & Remedies: Conditional Sentence vs. Conditional Discharge

"Unlike convictions, discharges do not appear on a person's criminal record. Also, a person who receives a discharge can honestly say that they have never been convicted of a criminal offence, which can be very helpful in an employment or immigration context."


That information is enough to convince me that travel to the U.S. is not problem what so ever.

And let's not forget the human factor (same source)...

"Also, since the CNI search may yield multiple results it cannot be relied upon fully, but remember that human bias is fueled by perception. And if you're perceived to have committed an offence, psychology tells us you're less likely to make it over the border, less likely to earn your acceptance to med school, and less likely to get that executive position you've been eyeing."

[JudyKayTee]

The US Government (or any other Government) can and does access records which are not available to anyone else.

If someone wants to enter the US and not have a prior record accessed he/she must apply to have the record permanently removed. It is not a normal course of action.

Of course, the thread is some years old and the OP no longer cares.

[Loreo12]

You will most likely need a U.S. Waiver (I-194). However, it depends on what the conditional discharge applies to. Certain crimes do not make one inadmissible to the U.S. while others do. Look up crimes of moral turpitude, see if your offense is listed. If it is, then you will have to apply for a U.S. waiver. If it is not, then most likely you will not have any problems at the border. For example, drunk driving is not considered a Crime of Moral Turpitude and therefore does not make one inadmissible, however, fraud/theft does.

I would not recommend "going to the border to see what happens". This can cause additional problems down the road. Do your research first. Go on the USCIS website for exact immigration laws for Canadians trying to enter the U.S.

Good luck.

[martino1969]

I am a travel agent and get these questions all the time, and I would also like to add to this (correct me if I am wrong)
First all, great answer YGHamel. I am assuming that from the time of your last court appearance, the records in theory should be erased out of the CPIC system as a conditional or absolute discharge is not a criminal offense in Canada.
As for travel anywhere else, you should be fine as long as your plane does land in the United States??

[JudyKayTee]

I know of no polite way to say this.

If you want information about Immigration, call Immigration and ask.

When I want medical advice, I call a Physician. Same thing here - ask the appropriate Agency.

[rwnelson]

At the time of sentencing if a conditional discharge is granted is it possible for the judge to seal the record and if so does that mean it will not(or should not) appear in CPIC or CNI even during the 3 year period after sentncing?