[Nightrain]

I've beed reading responses to questions regarding venting and I am a little confused. I'm getting the full court pressure from my wife to finish the renovated basement which includes a new 1/2 bath. The bath has a Sanibest toilet system and a standard pedestal style sink. The bath is directly next to the laundry/furnace room. Here are my questions below. Any help would be greatly appreciated :( .

1) I will tie in two vents... 1-1/2" outlet from macerator tank and 1-1/2 tee-wye after the
2" sink p-trap. I figured I would use a 1-1/2x1-1/2x1-1/2 tee wye since the drain from the sink requires a 1-1/2" line to the macerator. The sink p-trap will be 2" and will be reduced to 1-1/2". Does this sound correct?

2) After connecting both 1-1/2" vents, I'm at a loss. There seems to be a vent stack in the laundry room next to the dryer leading up to the 1st floor. Can I connect to this or must I vent separately to the side exterior of the house? If I have to vent separately, then I have a problem with the penetration to the exterior being near a window (about 4ft to the left of the window base). I'm limited with the way the venting is ran since 90% of the ceiling is up.

3) The existing 3/4" hot/cold pex supply lines are just above the new 1/2 bath running along the joist. Since the run is very short for serving the toilet and sink, can I use compression fittings or must I use crimp style fittings? I believe the crimp tool is pretty expensive even though I could always rent.

4) What is the general rule as far as support for the pex?

Thanks!

[massplumber2008]

Hi Nightrain:

1) For sink, 1.5" drain and 1.5" vent off sanitary tee you mentioned, but only 1.5" sink p-trap needed..ok?

2) As long as vent for laundry does not pick up anything upstairs you can connect into this vent (upside down sanitary tee fitting) at least 6-12 inches higher then the standpipe for the washing machine (or minimum 48" off the finished floor).

3) Rent the crimping tool... super easy system to use and will never worry about the compression fittings letting loose.

4) Hang every 4-6 feet... just to keep clean/aligned.

I use copper to stub out and up to pex pipe. I use a 6 inch piece of copper into elbow with a 6inch piece of copper to a pex x copper adapter.

I presweat the pex x copper adapter on one end and a cap on the other end of pipe... then I install and hang strongly using copper clips, etc... then connect pex pipe. Then test all... then when bath finished, I just cut off caps and sweat on new stops or will use compresion shutoffs here. PEX does not like to make tight corners as might be required in 2x4 wall... so this is trick we use for better hanging and to reduce stress on the pex pipe.

In terms of the sanibest... any more questions... click on the link and gets you to the specification/installation manual for your system:

http://www.saniflo.ca/downloads/inst...FR_April07.pdf

Let me know your thoughts... Mark

If this answer helped, Please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you

.

[Nightrain]

Hi Nightrain:

1) For sink, 1.5" drain and 1.5" vent off sanitary tee you mentioned, but only 1.5" sink p-trap needed..ok?

2) As long as vent for laundry does not pick up anything upstairs you can connect into this vent (upside down sanitary tee fitting) at least 6-12 inches higher then the standpipe for the washing machine (or minimum 48" off the finished floor).

3) Rent the crimping tool...super easy system to use and will never worry about the compression fittings letting loose.

4) Hang every 4-6 feet...just to keep clean/aligned.

I use copper to stub out and up to pex pipe. I use a 6 inch piece of copper into elbow with a 6inch piece of copper to a pex x copper adapter.

I presweat the pex x copper adapter on one end and a cap on the other end of pipe...then I install and hang strongly using copper clips, etc...then connect pex pipe. Then test all...then when bath finished, I just cut off caps and sweat on new stops or will use compresion shutoffs here. PEX does not like to make tight corners as might be required in 2x4 wall...so this is trick we use for better hanging and to reduce stress on the pex pipe.

In terms of the sanibest...any more questions...click on the link and gets you to the specification/installation manual for your system:

http://www.saniflo.ca/downloads/inst...FR_April07.pdf

Let me know your thoughts...Mark

If this answer helped, Please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you

.

Thanks massplumber :) ! You cleared up a lot. As far as your responses, could you or anyone else expand on the following:

You said (for stubbing out) you use 6" copper into elbow with 6" copper and then convert over to pex to prevent the pex from making a sharp bend. Are there any other options?Could you show me the correct parts to use for this configuration... especially the stubout? Also, could you please recommend what type of shutoff valves to use.

Thanks a lot! I'll be in action soon. By the way, I know commercial HVAC (especially ATC Controls) like the back of my hand... but when it comes to plumbing I'm basically in self-teachning mode :D .

[massplumber2008]

Hello NT:

First... anyone that knows his stuff... "especially ATC controls" should pop back in any time and check out the HVAC area of this site.. can always use knowledgeable people!. ;).

Stubbing out:

Check out picture below. This is a 1/2"pex x 1/2"copper elbow stub out (in this case, reduce 3/4" to 1/2" pex at all fixture stub outs)... sold at all PLUMBING SUPPLY HOUSES... or can be ordered. It reduces stress on pex in 2x4 wall... by attaching to copper without bending pex excessively.

Then at copper... AT FINISH... can cut off copper stub ends and sweat (solder) angle shutoffs on or can also install 5/8" compression angle stops (see pic below). At toilet I always sweat a shutoff with bell flange (see pic. #3)..but also available as 5/8" compression stops if you order ahead. Talk to me if go for this as ordering is angle specific)

Let me know your thoughts... Mark

.

[Nightrain]

Hello NT:

First...anyone that knows his stuff..."especially ATC controls" should pop back in any time and check out the HVAC area of this site..can always use knowledgable people!!...;).

Stubbing out:

Check out picture below. This is a 1/2"pex x 1/2"copper elbow stub out (in this case, reduce 3/4" to 1/2" pex at all fixture stub outs)...sold at all PLUMBING SUPPLY HOUSES...or can be ordered. It reduces stress on pex in 2x4 wall...by attaching to copper without bending pex excessively.

Then at copper...AT FINISH...can cut off copper stub ends and sweat (solder) angle shutoffs on or can also install 5/8" compression angle stops (see pic below). At toilet I always sweat a shutoff with bell flange (see pic. #3)..but also available as 5/8" compression stops if you order ahead. Talk to me if go for this as ordering is angle specific)

Let me know your thoughts...Mark

.

Thanks again. I'll check out the HVAC section. I think I will pick up the stub-out elbows from a local plumbing supply house. Also, I will use the 5/8" compression angle stop valves. My main supply lines are both 3/4" (I believe) pex which will come down from the to be installed crimp style T-fittings along the joist and crimp onto the stub-out elbows. Any pictures or recommendations on how to install the elbows on the backing board I see on installations behind the drywall?

Any final info I must know before ordering? I believe I should be purchasing 90 degree style valves since the faucet connections will be coming from overhead. Did you mention 5/8" stops because these are typical for standard sink faucet connections? FYI... this is going to be pedestal style.

Thanks. You've been such a big help :) !

[massplumber2008]

Hey NT:

I mentioned the 5/8" because when you talk 1/2" copper pipe in terms of compression fittings/shutoffs you must talk the outside diameter (O.D.) of the pipe... or, for example, could end up with 1/2" compression fitting that fits a dishwasher...not those 1/2" copper stubs we have been discussing.

So, you will want to order (2) 5/8" compression x 3/8" compression chrome angle stops (which allows you to install (2) 1/2"IPS x 3/8" compression flexible lavatory supply tubes to the faucet at pedestal)... see pic.#1

You also want to order (2) 1/2" copper pipe size chrome f&c plates (floor & ceiling plate) to install/finish behind the compression stops. These can be plastic or metal.

Then at finish, with flat f&c plates and the compression stop I posted earlier...I cut the stubout at 1.25 " off finish wall... then slide f&c plate over pipe, then slide nut and compression sleeve over pipe, then install shutoff... This way, no copper pipe shows... only CHROME.. ;) You need to measure your setup, of course.

And if I understood correctly... you were wondering how to hang the stubout elbows.. I use copper clips or bell hangers (see pic.#2) on occasion... just screw to stud or wood blocking. Did I understand.. or not?

Get back to me if any other questions... good luck! Mark

.

[Nightrain]

Hey NT:

I mentioned the 5/8" because when you talk 1/2" copper pipe in terms of compression fittings/shutoffs you must talk the outside diameter (O.D.) of the pipe...or, for example, could end up with 1/2" compression fitting that fits a dishwasher...not those 1/2" copper stubs we have been discussing.

So, you will want to order (2) 5/8" compression x 3/8" compression chrome angle stops (which allows you to install (2) 1/2"IPS x 3/8" compression flexible lavatory supply tubes to the faucet at pedestal)...see pic.#1

You also want to order (2) 1/2" copper pipe size chrome f&c plates (floor & ceiling plate) to install/finish behind the compression stops. These can be plastic or metal.

Then at finish, with flat f&c plates and the compression stop I posted earlier...I cut the stubout at 1.25 " off finish wall...then slide f&c plate over pipe, then slide nut and compression sleeve over pipe, then install shutoff....This way, no copper pipe shows...only CHROME..;) You need to measure your setup, of course.

And if I understood correctly...you were wondering how to hang the stubout elbows..? I use copper clips or bell hangers (see pic.#2) on occassion...just screw to stud or wood blocking. Did I understand..or not?

Get back to me if any other questions...good luck!! Mark

.

Mark, you are the man! What is picture #1 (looks line a miniature cork screw :D ). I'm so good to go now... thanks again!

[massplumber2008]

Hey NT:

Pic.#1 is a 1/2" copper bell hanger with a copper plated screw in it. All bell hangers come with copper plated screw so people don't use a regular sheetrock screw which is disimilar metal and will breakdown copper pipe over time and cause a leak.

Good luck! Mark

[Nightrain]

Hi Nightrain:

1) For sink, 1.5" drain and 1.5" vent off sanitary tee you mentioned, but only 1.5" sink p-trap needed..ok?

2) As long as vent for laundry does not pick up anything upstairs you can connect into this vent (upside down sanitary tee fitting) at least 6-12 inches higher then the standpipe for the washing machine (or minimum 48" off the finished floor).

3) Rent the crimping tool...super easy system to use and will never worry about the compression fittings letting loose.

4) Hang every 4-6 feet...just to keep clean/aligned.

I use copper to stub out and up to pex pipe. I use a 6 inch piece of copper into elbow with a 6inch piece of copper to a pex x copper adapter.

I presweat the pex x copper adapter on one end and a cap on the other end of pipe...then I install and hang strongly using copper clips, etc...then connect pex pipe. Then test all...then when bath finished, I just cut off caps and sweat on new stops or will use compresion shutoffs here. PEX does not like to make tight corners as might be required in 2x4 wall...so this is trick we use for better hanging and to reduce stress on the pex pipe.

In terms of the sanibest...any more questions...click on the link and gets you to the specification/installation manual for your system:

http://www.saniflo.ca/downloads/inst...FR_April07.pdf

Let me know your thoughts...Mark

If this answer helped, Please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you

.

Hey massplumber,

I just wanted to confirm note #2 above. My basement washer seems to be wet vented to a 1-1/2" drain line. After its trap, there is a tee where it leads upstairs as well as taps into an adjacent 4" drain. Being that I live in a 1650SF / 2-floor twin townhome, I believe this
1-1/2" line coming from the top floor is obviously a drain line for at least the kitchen sink.

Is a 1-1/2" drain too small to host more than the kitchen sink & washer (i.e. 1st floor & 2nd floor bathroom)?

Again, are you saying I cannot wet vent the Sanibest System?

My options seem to be slim to none. If separate venting outside the side of the house is my only option, then that may still be a problem because of the local windows.

I know local code is important and I plan to have someone licensed give me advice.


Thanks :)

[massplumber2008]

Hey NT:

You definitely cannot wet vent this system.. ok? Find a way to get that vent upstairs at bathroom and connect into a vent up there if possible (connect six inches higher than the top of sink! )... if possible.

I run 2" drain to kitchen sink....and I run 2" pipe to washing machine. Older plumbing systems used 1.5" waste/vent to pick up all kinds of stuff....OK most of the time, but with newer washing macchines and more and more disposals being installed, 1.5" pipe simply will not work anymore.

Anyway, don't tie this system into drains or vents that get any waste from anything... ok?

A licensed plumber's advice will certainly assure you of fewer issues down the road! Good luck.

Let me know if need more... Mark