[George_1950]

"In the annals of judicial imperialism, we have arrived at a strange new chapter. A California court ruled this month that parents cannot "home school" their children without government certification. No teaching credential, no teaching. Parents "do not have a constitutional right to home school their children," wrote California appellate Justice Walter Croskey....
"The case was initiated by the Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services after a home-schooled child reportedly complained of physical abuse by his father. A lawyer assigned to two of the family's eight children invoked the truancy law to get the children enrolled in a public school and away from their parents. So a single case of parental abuse is being used to promote the registration of all parents who crack a book for their kids. If this strikes some readers as a tad East German, we know how you feel.

"That so many families turn to home schooling is a market solution to a market failure -- namely the dismal performance of the local education monopoly. According to the Home School Legal Defense Association, the majority of states have low to moderate levels of regulation for home schools, an environment that has allowed the option to flourish, especially in the South and Western U.S. Between 1999 and 2003, the rate of home-schooling increased by 29%." Certifying Parents - WSJ.com
I live in the State of Georgia; yes, Jimmy Carter's Georgia, which has just recently elected its first modern-day Republican governor, though he is a turn-coat Democrat. Believe it or not, Albert Einstein could not teach in a Georgia public school because he lacked certification. And in the Peoples' Republic of California, Dr. Einstein could not teach his own kids at home.
The California mess represents some of what is so wrong about the Democrats' view of the proper role of government, especially when it comes to taking care of the Party's constituency. Oh yes, how much the Dem/Fascists care about the little guy. Of course, this is the same Party that protects criminals (Miranda) and abortion on demand. Long may judicial activism reign. A Big Win for Judicial Supremacy, a Big Loss for Government Language Lawyers and Another Example of Real Change - HUMAN EVENTS

[NeedKarma]

Maybe because this is what some parents are teaching:

[Galveston1]

The idea that the State "owns" the children is a pretty recent idea, and one that is repugnant to free men! Socialists want to control everyone, cradle to grave. There are a lot of us who just want government to butt out.

[NeedKarma]

Your schools OWN your children? Who the hell would want to live there? Why is no one revolting against this??

[jillianleab]

Maybe because this is what some parents are teaching:

Oh my. My oh my oh my. That's really all I can say without getting off topic. Oh my.

To the OP:

At first I thought this was a different certification home school parents were supposed to get, not a 4-year teaching degree.

I could see requiring parents to pass a competency test, just as how in most states they have to follow a certain curriculum. But requiring a 4-year degree? It seems they are trying to curb religious teaching more than anything else, and I don't agree with that. You may not have a constitutional right to educate your child at home, but there's nothing in the constitution which demands public schooling either.

What would Einstein do? If he wanted to teach, he'd get certified.

ETA: The schools in my state don't own the kids, at least not that I'm aware of. You can move here, NK.

[inthebox]

Maybe because this is what some parents are teaching:

Om my gosh ! This parent is teaching that evolution is not a fact. Darwinian heresy!


Lets see, my tax dollars go to public schools, where my kid is one of 25 or more students per teacher. A teacher that also has to deal with general social problems, depending on school district.

The average home schooling parent still has to pay taxes that go to the local public school, and gets no tax benefit for spending money on home schooling.

In this day of single parent homes, cohabitaing unwed parents, two working parents [ often no other choice ], the government is going to make it more difficult to teach YOUR OWN child? A child that gets tremendously more parental time?

How is this a bad thing? :confused:

[excon]

Of course, this is the same Party that protects criminals (Miranda)

Hello George:

You had me going, until your REAL credentials showed up...

If THAT is what you'd be teaching at home, it's no wonder the state is intervening... Cause what you'd be teaching is WRONG, wrong, and even WRONGER than that.

Actually, it's the CONSTITUTION, in the form of the Fifth Amendment that protects the accused - not a political party. If you're going to invoke the Constitution, don't cherry pick...

Wait a minute. Didn't you accuse me of cherry picking?? You did.

excon

[George_1950]

Hello excon: of course you know that Miranda is not in the constitution, it is the result of judicial activism, and not coincidentally most of that crowd was nominated and confirmed by a Democratic regime. Of course, it is never wrong for parents to teach their children their religious beliefs. I know you agree with me on both points because I'm not arguing the substance of either, but the procedure. Where would you put your trust? With your family or your government?

[excon]

How is this a bad thing?

Hello in:

It's a bad thing because a parent has a duty to prepare their children to handle life. Telling them fantasy is fact, doesn't do that.

I do agree with Jillian, however, you absolutely have the right to produce uneducated children.

excon

[excon]

of course you know that Miranda is not in the constitution, it is the result of judicial activism.... Of course, it is never wrong for parents to teach their children their religious beliefs.

Hello again, George:

Miranda, per se, isn't in the Constitution. The Fifth Amendment is. All Miranda does is tell the accused what the Fifth Amendment says in case he doesn't already know.

Yes, I'm sure you call that protecting criminals. I don't.

As I said above, parents absolutely have the right to produce uneducated (but very religious) children.

excon

[George_1950]

Hello again, excon
I want the police to be on an equal footing with those who enjoy breaking the law, not somehow "above" those whom they suspect of committing a crime. I would expect that if we were to study the lives of the justices that gave us Miranda, we would find nine snobbish men who never got their hands dirty.
It is that kind of elitism that has given us Miranda and an education monopoly that will not hire an Einstein because he is not "certified".

[excon]

I want the police to be on an equal footing with those who enjoy breaking the law, not somehow "above" those whom they suspect of committing a crime.

Hello again, George:

Me too, and that's what the Bill of Rights does...

So, tell me, George. If the criminals in OUR country are "above" the cops, how come OUR country has the largest prison population in the world??

excon

[tomder55]

Getting back to the original content ; Calf. School systems were once ranked at or near the top of the nation . They have sunk towards the bottom

Smartest State 2006-2007

And internationally we are slipping compared to other nations .

U.S. falls in education rank compared to other countries | The Kapio

I can't for the life of me understand why a parent would want to opt out of such a fine system that guarantees a bang for your buck!!

[asking]

I doubt the requirement for home schooling parents to have a teaching certificate will stand, if that's even what's being said. Even teachers at accredited private schools don't have to have a teaching certificate in California, so it seems unlikely that the state would ever require that of homeschooling parents.

I home schooled my son for one year, in California, and I thought the requirements were ludicrously minimal. Although I know basic math and algebra I was a terrible math teacher and my son was behind state standards by the end of the year. He was monitored by a local home schooling group who basically demanded to see evidence that we had done Something. The work of two or three hours was enough to satisfy them for every 3 weeks. I don't regret homeschooling him for that one year --for a long series of reasons that have nothing to do with his academic progress. But it would be very easy for a homeschooling parent to not teach their child much of anything or to teach things that are wrong. I think it is an issue worth examining and there is undoubtedly some compromise between a teaching certificate (which as far as I know takes 1 year, not 4) and no requirements at all.

Just Asking

[asking]

getting back to the original content ; Calf. school systems were once ranked at or near the top of the nation . They have sunk towards the bottom

Our schools have sunk to near the bottom because anti-tax organizations have successfully deprived the schools of funding--whether they are kindergartens or universities. The anti-tax movement has gutted our school system over the last 30 years. People who don't believe in educating the next generation or any other public service ought not to complain about the result. Public education, libraries, and fire departments might seem like socialism to some people, but others consider them a mark of a civilized nation.

I have read that even fire and other emergency services are becoming privatized in some communities, so that the wealthy pay for "extra" services and everybody else gets by on whatever minimal service minimal tax payments will support--like 20 minute response times for fires and heart attacks. Why should the middle class and poor benefit from the hard work of the wealthy? Let 'em rot, eh?

Asking

[tomder55]

That may be true but I also suspect it is the influx and catering to the needs of immigrants (legal and otherwise) into the system that is having an effect.In fact it impacts all the services you mentioned. There is a net drain as immigrant household received $14,145 in benefits and services and paid only $5,309 in taxes. Factor in illegals only and the numbers are more stark.

Cal. ranks #1 in teacher salaries so the unions must be happy campers. Per pupil Cal. is slightly below national averages . So it does not stand to reason that there is a correlation between funding and the quality of the education. With the numbers spent per student and per teacher Cal. should rank much better. If I had the time I would like to examine how much of the funding gets syphoned off at each level of the bureaucracy and actually reaches the class room. But the bottom line is don't look for the best bang for your buck when it is the government spending it.

[jillianleab]

I think you're making a good point, tom; funding isn't necessarily going to equal a better education or better quality. As you said, I'd like to see how much money is actually making it into the classrooms (not just in CA, but everywhere), because that is where funding does the most good.

I know there have been recent articles about the DC school system and the corruption and mis-use of funds (board members buying boats and houses and hookers), I'm sure if one looked, such things could be found in nearly every school system.

[asking]

Well, we can only opine about what the cause is without better information. I know there aren't enough teachers, because my son had 43 kids in his advanced algebra class. I don't care how good the teacher is or how well paid, there's no way she can give individual attention to that many people--especially if she is teaching 5 classes, each with that many students.

I attended California public schools when they were considered good, and my classes were filled with immigrants. In 9th grade, I was the only white child in my classroom. In 8th grade, there were two of us. In those days, 35 students was considered overflowing and barely tolerable, usually classes were 25 to 30. Now classes can have as many as 45 students. Anyway, somehow the teachers managed to teach all those immigrants in 1968. And I know many of them were illegals because they were my friends and they told me they were. I know the state has tripled in size, but we haven't tripled the number of teachers, let alone good teachers. The best, most senior teachers are well-paid (and they work hard too), and they may be paid better than the national average, as you say, but in the county where I live, teachers don't earn enough to buy a house, even on two salaries. I think they deserve to be able to make a home in the county where they work. Because they can't, we get junior teachers who live in group houses like students until they marry and move away to start their "real" life.

And I blame the people who don't want to pay taxes for that state of affairs. Taxes are what we pay to have a civilized life and a healthy community where people vote for what will be good for their children and grandchildren, instead of what will buy them the most toys this year.
Asking

[tomder55]

How much is enough ? Your State like most states are going to face huge budget shortfalls because of the decline in the economy . Do you think you can keep on picking people's pockets until they are empty ? I looked at the so called cuts in education there and they were actually increases. What they called a cut was the reduction in the rate of increases.

When you tax the people to death the smart one bolt to a place less burdensome ;so do businesses .

More money, more problems for state

[George_1950]

asking, I appreciate the wonderful information you have provided. I am commenting on just one aspect, but am not discounting the rest, so please forgive me. If the immigration mess has been that bad for so long, at what point does the national and state governments get serious about stopping the immigration nightmare? Not only are they depressing the value of education, but consider the enormous expense in hospitals. I don't care if we pick illegals up in the emergency rooms or classrooms, it is past time to bring this to a halt. There is just one way in the U.S. to get the attention of the power brokers, and that is to turn the trial lawyers loose on the state and federal officials who have turned a blind eye toward this national disgrace and disaster.