[Karl D]

Hi there

My bathroom water supply to the sink comes through the floor. I would like to replace it with a chrome plated straight valve. The chrome pipe slides over the copper pipe, which leaves the "solder seam" on the Up side (with respect to gravity) My question is: How to I ensure that the solder penetrates everywhere it's supposed to go -- won't it just drip down the pipe and not fill the seam? Should I use the kind of solder that is already mixed with flux, and just paint it on and heat? Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Karl

[hkstroud]

If I interpret you question correctly you want to know how to solder the bottom joint of the valve and the pipe. In other words how do you make the solder run up hill? Solder the top joint first if there is one, then solder the bottom joint. Just heat the valve and the heat will draw the solder up into the joint. Immediately wipe with wet cloth.

[ballengerb1]

"I would like to replace it with a chrome plated straight valve" this part I understand but don't understand about a chrome pipe sliding over another pipe That is not how this is done. I think you mean you what a chrome valve and a chrome pipe and currently have neither. I would cut the supply lines at the floor or below if I can get to them. Install a compression to pipe thread fitting, chrome if you want. Now go threaded chrome pipe to your chrome valve and out the top side to your sink.

[hkstroud]

Show us a picture of what you have and what you want to install.

[massplumber2008]

Hi Karl:

Does the valve you want to solder look like my pic (except yours would be straight)?

If so, then need to really clean the inside of the extension 2 inches deep with a 1/2" cleaning brush, then use sandcloth to de-chrome the very end of shutoff... between inside and outside... at end of extension. Then add bell flange on... then flux and sandcloth pipe and then flux shutoff (2 inches deep)... then install over pipe (will push/bunch the flux up... that is ok).. then give a slight crimp to hold in place (I crimp shutoff off center and then rotate into place to set strong and then just solder so heat pulls the solder up and into the shutoff).

Soldering is all about the prep. And the heat. Here, you heat the end of shutoff good, then when addind solder you have heat directed high so solder will pull into the shutoff. Don't be afraid of a few drips.. solder will suck in well if you do all this.

This type shutoff discolors abit when soldering and can BURN if heat too hot.. so just keep flame at medium and go for it... let me know if this is right.. ok?

If this helped please RATE THIS ANSWER... Thank you... MARK

.

[Karl D]

Thank you Harold, and Mark.

Mark -- Yes, it is a straight chrome extension. What I meant is that is slides into the pipe for an inch or so (Is that normal?) I replaced the old lines because they looked tentative and had been bent into place (I guess the previous owner/plumber couldn't be bothered with elbows) I used new 1/2" copper both hot and cold, running from the basement up through the floor using sharkbite connections (T, elbow, and couplers). I didn't want to be listening for every drip noise at night and worrying that my solder job will fail at any time.

Right now they are capped. I've read that you put white bread in the line to absorb any water that may remain after draining the lines --is that right? Would you mind a couple more questions?

What do you think of the combination flux/solder product?

Once I heat up the pipe(s) ..and solder begins to flow --what do I do if the solder stops flowing before finishing? I'm worried that I will over-heat the pipe and boil away all the flux --or underheat it and end up with a spotty job. Then panic and melt solder everywhere. Can you give me an approximation of how long you heat the pipe ? --and how do I know it's a solid connection...and lastly --what do you mean by "crimp" the pipe.

I'm sorry for all questions -- there is just some sort of mental block, panic feeling I get when it comes to plumbing --

Karl

[speedball1]

it is a straight chrome extension. What I meant is that is slides into the pipe for an inch or so

Am I missing something something here? Are you attempting to solder chrome? Chrome don't solder. If you have a chrome pipe that slides into a copper pipoe then the solder won't take unless you remove the chrome dowm to t6he brass brfore you even fire up the torch. The secret of soldering is cleaning, fluxing and heat.
First remove the chrome finish down to the brass a inch on either side of where you'll be solderi8ng. I take a file or hacksaw blade to remove the chrome. The brass don't hane to be clean and shiny but enough brass has to show for vthe solder to flo0w all the way around.
Take a cleaning brush shine the inside of the pipe the chrome piece will fit into.
Now paint boththe inside of the pipe and the outside of the brass that you cleaned up with NoCorrode Solder paste or a acid based paste and join the pipes.
Fire up the torch using a medium tip and apply heat to the BOTTOM of the largest fitting while holding the tip of your solder on TOP.
When the solder begins to melt on top run the tip of the solder around the joint. Capillary action will suck the solder into the joint as you run the solder around the joint. Run the solder around several times and let it set it. You have just completed your solder job. Hope this helps and thank you for rating my reply. Tom

[massplumber2008]

Hi Karl:

Hey, if you aren't comfortable with soldering... there are shutoffs that can be installed without soldering. They are not quite as elegant as the shutoffs I showed you earlier, but they are nice, shiny chrome... :)

You could use 5/8" O.D. compression x 3/8" O.D. compression stops with bell flanges (as in previous picture) or just old fashioned 1/2" copper chrome split rings... see pic.below.

Some people do not like them... I was afraid of them at first, too (and I do solder most of mine) BUT these work reliably if installed as instructed (PLUS A FULL TURN... ;) ). I have installed 100's and have never gotten a call back...so you decide....solder or solderless?? :)

[razor96]

Very good mass plumber I als ohave installed many of them and they do not leak, just a tip though, get one with a ball valve not a washer.

[massplumber2008]

Karl, razor raises good point. There are washer type (older style) and ball valve type (newer-washerless) shutoffs. Each type has its place. The ball valve type OR the washer type is fine in this case. I can make an argument for both... ;)

I am glad point was raised here though instead of at the home supply store... huh Razor? Thanks!

Karl... let us know your thoughts!

[hkstroud]

Karl, I am assuming that you are installing a regular old chrome plated brass stop valve. I think most often you will find that a compression type is used and no soldering is required. This type has the advantage of that if you have to change it out you don't have to go through the unsoldering and resoldering. If you use the solder type you should find that the inside of the valve is not chrome plated. Flux the pipe, slip the valve onto the pipe. I have not used the flux/solder mix so I am not familiar with it. I just unroll about 6 to 8 inches of solder wire. Curl the end of the solder in a about a 2" arc. Put the tip of your flame (the tip of the blue flame is the hottest) on one side of the valve. When the flux begins to flow begin touching the solder to the other side of the valve/pipe joint. When the tip of the solder begins to melt, the pipe and valve is hot enough. Reach around behind the valve with the solder and run a bead around to the front. Move you flame away. Then run a bead around the other side. If the pipe cools enough so that the solder no longer melts briefly heat the pipe about 1" away to bring it back up to temperature. Better to use the compression type though.

[KISS]

The "white bread trick" is for special circumstances like a long horizontal piece of pipe that has no slope and thus the water doesn't drain readily.

[Karl D]

Thank you all for your help! To clarify it better --it is a chrome plated copper valve that is sold with the pipe, already sweated to the valve. (massplumber's picture was on the spot)

Thank you all for the tips --I'd like to go with the compression fit valve, but I like the look of the chrome plated pipe and valve, with the chrome risers to the sink.

I feel more confident now about soldering (having practiced a few connections) I guess I was mostly concerned because since I would be soldering this "in place" and not on my bench, the position might effect the solder -- in other words -- I need the solder to flow "upward" to fill the space between the two pipes. I imagine they design this contraption (The chrome plated valve and pipe) to have it's own "connection cup" built right in, which is why it slides over the stub out.

From what I gather from your answers, the solder will flow into the joint (toward the heated pipe) and seal the space. So I will heat the larger pipe--in this case, the valve. What I had been doing wrong in the past was heating both and wondering why I couldn't maintain the heat to finish the job. I know better now! I still don't know what is meant by "crimping the pipe" --do you mean that I tilt on of the pipes?

Thanks again
K

[KISS]

Actually, the way I teach people to solder is to clean both parts of the fitting (there is a tool for this) and use flux on both sides using a flux brush and place the fitting on top of the pipe.

Heat the massive fitting and occaisionally touch the joint with the solder until it's hot enough to melt. When it's hot enough, run the solder around the fitting. Capillary action will pull the solder into the joint. It doesn't matter the orientation, but doing it with the fitting on top lets you get the feel of the process. While it's still hot, you can wipe off excess solder with a damp rag. Let the fitting cool undisturbed.

As for the "look", there is another solution which I chose recently is to use a chrome plated soft copper 3/8 pipe nipple and a 3/8 NPT to 3/8 compression stop (valve). You'll need a pair of soft grip pliers to keep from damaging the pipes. I was able to "hide" the 3/8 NPT female to 1/2" sweat adapter under the chrome bell. Difficult, but not impossible and you need to use a heat shield when soldering.

[massplumber2008]

Good morning Karl:

Crimping means to just squeeze the shutoff (when installed on copper pipe), just a little so it hold the shutoff up off the floor and in position so you can solder shutoff on.

Here, install the bell flange, pull it up high on shutoff, then install shutoff to fluxed copper pipe (as described before) at about 90 degrees OFF where you want it installed... then "CRIMP" slightly and rotate the shutoff into final position.

This shutoff should be about 1/2"-3/4" off the finished floor to solder on properly and allow bell flange to cover the soldered joint. DO NOT worry about drips here... bell flange will cover the drips.

Again, clean chrome off end of shutoff like I said... then solder, and kind of CAP the soldered end as it cools... that make sense. Do not wipe this joint... just solder, and cap as cools with solder... hard to describe it.. but you'll see what I mean.
If you point the flame away from the wall you should not need a soldering heat shield.. ok? Let us know if need more Karl... Good luck!


.

[KISS]

Note: Solder won't stick to chrome very well.

[ballengerb1]

I know Karl read my suggestion to use this compression fitting, he gave me a compliment. I did this back on 3-12 so there should be no need to try to solder a chrome pipe. Maybe I missed something along the way because there have been several great resonses here.

[KISS]

Bb:
You missed something, He wanted the installation to look pretty. Compression fittings don't look pretty. The two choices then being an stop with a chrome plated copper extension or using chrome plated copper nipples. Both have a pleasing appearance.

With the latter the bell can be easily replaced when it inevitably decides to rust and there are a few exposed threads.

[ballengerb1]

I must be getting old, I think everything with chrome on it is pretty. Mark posted what I think is a pretty comression/Pt stop. I miss my chrome bumpers.

[KISS]

I miss the shock absorbers on the bumpers. Meanwhile it costs about $900 and 4 days to repair a scratch.