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sherrycat · Mar 3, 2008, 03:28 PM

Whenever we turn on the sprinklers to water the lawn, our toilets start running and filling with hot water. This started about a year ago. We also have water hammer now. Could this all be related? Thanks for your help.

massplumber2008 · Mar 3, 2008, 03:50 PM

Hi Sherry:

I have a few questions for you before I can even start to figure this one out.. ;) OK?

Tell me, is your sprinkler system on a separate water meter?

If you have a separate meter are your outside sillcocks (outside lawn faucets) off this meter as well?

Now, the outside lawn faucets (sillcocks)... ANY chance that one of them has been set up with a mixing or tempering valve so that during the winter you can mix in hot water to cold water to give you warm water? Just check to be sure.

Then, well... what heats your hot water... water heater? Tankless heater coil off the boiler? Storage tank off boiler?

What kind of boiler/heat system do you have?

Seems to me that there is a mixing valve OR a check valve that has malfunctioned somewhere in your system.

Try to answer as many questions as you can and then get back to us.

.

hkstroud · Mar 3, 2008, 04:33 PM

If you figure this one out Mark, you get your Masters license.

massplumber2008 · Mar 3, 2008, 04:42 PM

YUP... you know I have two masters licenses... but I think this will catapult me into a doctorate... ;)

Hey Sherry answer those questions.. lots of good people with good ideas here that will try to get an answer for you. Take care.

sherrycat · Mar 3, 2008, 05:06 PM

Hi massplumber2008--Many thanks for your help! To answer your questions---the sprinklers are not on a separate water meter and I can't see anything that might look like a mixing valve. From having to shut off the water a few times, I know that you can turn off the first valve and turn off the house water and the outside water---or just turn off a second set of valves that are closer to the house and only the sprinklers will be turned off--but not the hose bibs. In the house we have 2 water heaters as the house is long and narrow--so one at each end. The w.h. at one end is about 5 or6 yrs old and the other is about 8 yrs old. We have a water softener for the hot water only ---for the main water heater---and it's about 4 yrs old. Whether this is complicating factor---or simply one more problem---we have a workshop outside that we converted into a guest room--and it has a small bathroom with toilet, shower and sink---and a small kitchen with sink-- and it has a tiny water heater. The guest house's water MIGHT come off the sprinklers lines. And, alas, there are now problems with the water in the guest house. It began with the kitchen sink pressure getting low--then dirty looking water would come out and now not a drop comes out of the kitchen sink--hot or cold---and when you turn it on it sounds like it's gasping. In the bathroom we get cold water only out of the sink and shower--altho I was fiddling around with it yesterday and when I turned on the cold water in the bathroom sink for a minute--then shut it off and turned on the hot side, I did get a little warm water--for about 5 seconds. Then it sounds like some air is coming out. The toilet is running constantly and tomorrow I am going to try to replace the flapper and that other thing. We have very hard water here. Also, we only get to run sprinklers after 8 PM---and I think it only seems to start the toilets running when the backyard sprinklers start up. I really appreciate your quick response---and thanks again for your help.

KISS · Mar 3, 2008, 07:38 PM

How about that the sprinklers lower the water pressure and cause the fill valves in the toilet to leak. This then fills the toilets until the tank level exceeds the overflow tube.

That's why you stage sprinklers.

The extra guest house may have taxed the design of the system as well.

Put a pressure gage on the house, like the sillcock outside. You want to be looking at around 55 PSI. I'm not quoting an exact number, but in that ballpark. You want to see what it is and how much it drops when the sprinklers come on.

massplumber2008 · Mar 4, 2008, 04:52 AM

Hi Sherry

Start with the kitchen sink... remove the aerator at the end of the spout (unscrews clockwise) and clean it off/out of all debris... then replace and see if that restores water to kitchen sink.

Then try the pressure test KISS has suggested... they sell a nice hosebibb (sillcock) gauge at the home depot... just screws onto outside faucet. Check this gauge without sprinklers on and then with rear sprinklers on... see how much pressure drops.

The hot water at the sink.. air/warm water... Hmmm.. Are you getting any hot water at guest house?

Where do you live, by the way? Sprinklers still on this time of year?

ANyway, try these things.. get back to us with answers again.. and good luck replacing flapper and the fill valve (I think that is what you meant?? ).

hkstroud · Mar 4, 2008, 07:10 AM

Sherry

You said you have water hammer, do you have air in the lines after using the sprinkler?

sherrycat · Mar 4, 2008, 09:19 AM

Hello guys,

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.
We live close to San Antonio, TX. It's already been 90 degrees a couple days this year--and close to that a bunch of other days. Hot! And we've been in a drought for about 6-7 yrs---so sometimes I water during the winter to help the trees. We've lost a handful already anyway. The sprinklers are staged--if what you mean is that only about 3 sprinklers are going at any one time. Our city also made us install water pressure regulators about 4 yrs ago--located where the main water turn off is out by the street. When the guest house was a workshop it had a bathroom but not the kitchen sink or little water heater. Everything was built about 1980. Also, some more info that might be meaningful. The builder used pvc pipe meant for mobile homes as the water supply throughout the house and it failed about 10-12 years ago and all the pipes had to be replaced with copper. They are in the attic---it was a mess--broken pipes through-out the house. Another house he built in our neighborhood had the same problem. Shame on him! Up until about a year or so ago we had no problems with any water stuff. Now we have the water hammer all the time--not just after sprinkling. I have had to replace 3 sprinkler valves in the past two years. They're all 25 yrs old and at the end of their useful lives. A few days ago I took the aerator off the kitchen sink and cleaned it. There was just a little gunk--not enough to stop it up. Still no water comes out--just a gasping sound. If we have very hard water---could the hot water heater in the gusthouse be full of gunk? But I can't see why that would affect the cold water going to the sink--especially when it still goes to the bathroom sink just fine. Before, when the kitchen sink was losing it's water, the water looked rusty and there wasn't much of it. For the first 3 years of it's existence, it had excellent pressure and loads of hot, hot water. Could cold water pipes also get jammed with the calcium and stuff that's in our water? They are pvc in the guest house---they look small--maybe a half inch in diameter.
I really do appreciate your help. I stay at home with my 91 yr old mom--to keep her company in her last years--and we both live off her pension, so money is tight. I have learned to fix many things in the past 6 yrs that I have lived here---and I guess this next lesson is on house plumbing. Yippee! :-)

massplumber2008 · Mar 4, 2008, 09:41 AM

Sherry... I am not sure, of course, but those water pressure regulators probably have an integral strainer attached to them (the nut on bottom of valve)... see attached picture (yours may have a union type fitting... but valve should look a bit like this valve). Is it possible there is one regulator to main house and one regulator to sprinkler system (and maybe guest house? )?These regulator strainers can get clogged and reduce/even stop water flow completely to a house. If this is your case, you will want to clean them every year or so... anyway... If one is present in relation to the sprinkler system:

I want you to shut off water at meter and remove the strainer assembly (back nut on underbelly) and clear that of any debris... While the strainer is out turn water back on at meter and FLUSH the pressure reducer/strainer valve clean (catch in bucket).

Then replace the strainer , turn water on at meter and see if that fixes a lot of this stuff.

Click on this attachment http://www.watts.com/pdf/ES-U5.pdf gives you a cross section view of the valve and the strainer chamber... bunch of stuff.

Let us know what you think...

KISS · Mar 4, 2008, 11:33 AM

Then in all likeliness, the water hammer is due to insufficient supports for the piping.

If you have extremely hard water, then you should invest in a water softener.

You should open the drain on the hot water heaters monthly until it's clear.

sherrycat · Mar 4, 2008, 12:06 PM

Hello Mass,

Thanks for the further info! I appreciate it! I was just talking to our neighbor and he informed me that the water meter box out by the street was full of water. Oh, boy! The men are out there working on it already. Maybe everything will be solved soon! I can't look at the pressure regulator until they finish. Keep your fingers crossed for us. :-)