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drs72 · Feb 23, 2008, 08:21 AM

I need to run 2, 20 amp, 240 VAC outlets. I already have a 50 amp GFCI. How can I safely run 2, 20 amp receptacles off this breaker?

One option is to buy 2, 20 amp, 240 VAC, GFCI's. Not really what I want to do. These things are expensive,

Another option is to wire 2, 50 amp receptacles, but that means I have to rewire the appliances as well and end up with very large plugs.

Is there any way to handle this without spending a lot of money?

stanfortyman · Feb 23, 2008, 09:42 AM

How about telling us what you are trying to do?

WHY do you need two 20A 240V GFIs?
What are they for?

You say you "already have a 50 amp GFCI."? What does this mean? You just have an empty breaker?

drs72 · Feb 23, 2008, 09:53 AM

I have a homemade pot that has two, 3kw hot water heater elements in it. I want to be about to run them one at a time or both. I also don't really want big 50 amp plugs hanging off it.

This is in a new construction that has not been wired yet and I have plenty of room in the sub-panel. I really want to end up with 2, 20 amp receptacles and a 20 amp double pole switch controlling each one.

I mean that I already have a 50 amp GFCI breaker available and don't really want to buy 2 more.

stanfortyman · Feb 23, 2008, 01:40 PM

You can have the 50A GFCB feed a small sub panel. In that panel you can have two 2-pole 20A breakers each feeding one element.
You would need to run 6/3 cable to the sub panel and can use 12/2 to each element.
The elements doe NOT require a neutral.

Stratmando · Feb 23, 2008, 01:54 PM

Wonder if you need it GFI proteted? I would Ground well.

stanfortyman · Feb 23, 2008, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

Wonder if you need it GFI proteted? I would Ground well.

I thought the same thing. It seems he is intent on GFI protection.
He can if he wants, but it's definitely not required.

Stratmando · Feb 23, 2008, 02:31 PM

I also thought, Have GFI protect 2 regular 20 amp breakers, had to erase as you had just said the same thing.

drs72 · Feb 24, 2008, 04:59 AM

"I thought the same thing. It seems he is intent on GFI protection. "

As I mentioned, the pot is homemade. I grounded it very well, but the connections to the elements are not waterproof and boil overs do occur. That's the reason that both elements aren't being driven from a single 50 amp outlet. Both will bring the water to a boil quickly, but only one is needed to keep it boiling without spilling over. It's not just about meeting code, but rather safety.

What I have done in the past is that I built a cord with a single 50 amp plug that "Y" ed off to 2, 20 amp receptacles. This is not really safe, because either outlet could exceed its rating and not trip the breaker. It works well and I'm always around when it's running, but I'd still like to do it correctly.

I suppose the best route is the sub-panel and just bite the bullet and get 2, 20 amp GFCI's.

stanfortyman · Feb 24, 2008, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by drs72

I suppose the best route is the sub-panel and just bite the bullet and get 2, 20 amp GFCI's.

Once again, WHY do you need 20A GFIs?? You will be feeding the whole panel with a 50A GFI breaker, right?

drs72 · Feb 24, 2008, 05:37 AM

If I feed a sub-panel with the 50 amp GFCI, then I would not need any additional GFCIs, only 20 amp breakers.

However, if I don't want to go the sub-panel route, then I could use 2, 20 amp GFCI's. Each one would feed a single 20 amp outlet.

Sorry, I just reread my post and I should have said "OR just bite the bullet and get 2, 20 amp GFCI's."

stanfortyman · Feb 24, 2008, 05:57 AM

Oh, OK.
Yes, absolutely, two 20A GFIs would work just as well and you avoid having to go the sub-panel route.

Stratmando · Feb 24, 2008, 07:05 AM

If this was 6 circuit panel, it wou be perfect, cheaper, You will be buying 2 New GFI and not using a good one.
The other way, you could just buy 2 regular 240 volt/20 amp breakers. It is your choice and could be determined what you have most of, Time? Money? Labor?

drs72 · Feb 24, 2008, 07:49 AM

Not that it matters much, but why did you say a 6 circuit would be perfect? Wouldn't a 4 circuit (2 double pole breakers) be all that I need? Or maybe they don't make 4 circuit panels.

Stratmando · Feb 24, 2008, 09:15 AM

I was saying 2 poles for the GFI Breaker, 2 for 1 2 pole 20, 2 more spaces for the other 2 pole breaker.
I appologize, I was thinking of backfeeding GFI, to protect the 2 240 circuits, It may not be allowed and I haven't tested weather it still provides protection.
If a small 4 circuit panel next to GFI protection with #6's could supply power to 2 240 volt 20 amp breakers.