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dumbo22 · Feb 7, 2008, 02:23 AM

Okay well first of all I know steroids are bad I have a big book on working out and it tells you everything about them and how in the long run if you use them for awhile you could get serious probablys and how there really is no point to taking them because you just lose the muscel.. but this is my question. I have a friend who is taking them yeah I've show him the book and all that but he won't listen to me anyway. He left it in a place were it got cold and froze.. by the way its liquid form and is inject through a needel. He's been taking them for awhile seems to know what he's doing. But I laughed at him and said oo what a waste of money because it says," keep in room tempature "but it froze. So don't think he's going to be using them anymore.. well anyway he's going to just simpel let it thaw out and use them again.. here's what I thinking though it will thaw out right witch will cause water to go into his liquid than he injects them into his muscle.. is this bad . Will this cause some damge to him or what. He said to me that its good if you have water in your muscel I mean a big percantage is made up of water in your body.. but physical injected water into your muscles. Will this do damge I mean its probably only like 0.01 water and the rest steroids so would it do more harm or I don't know I know nothing about this stuff haha... any ways thanks for listing I'm just curious about him and don't want him getting hurt I mean he is a best friend... thank you again for listing

Scottish2008 · Feb 7, 2008, 05:56 AM

Nice question.. hmm. Well Steroids are a drug and like any drug sold at drug stores you have to follow the directions with your drug. I have seen this Steroid before. Does it look like this? A line of tape with 10 to 12 small size capsules separated. The capsules look like small glass cylinders that has brake off tips.
The facts about Steroids are true from what you can read from on line and in any muscle magazines. I will like to add that you will notice more aggression from your friend. So please keep that in mind. I really do not know what the damage to Steroids when it gets frozen but if like any drug not properly stored it losses it effect of what the drug is suppose to due. Again I am no expert. I would try to influence your friend to stop taking it for the effects that it could cause. I am not going to post links and information about Steroids because you look educated on this matter. I had a few friends a few years back us Steroids and till this day I still don't talk to them. For it is an illegal drug and they end up using other types of drugs latter on. It in nice to see that you are concerned about your friend. You really should try to tell him the long effects it can cause. Her is some information for you on this.
Sid effects are:
High blood pressure and heart disease
Liver damage and cancers
Stroke and blood clots
Urinary and bowel problems, such as diarrhea
Headaches, aching joints, and muscle cramps
Nausea and vomiting
Sleep problems
Increased risk of ligament and tendon injuries
Severe acne, especially on face and back
Baldness

Try to help your friend get off it. I hope this helped you in some form or another.

dumbo22 · Feb 7, 2008, 03:18 PM

Kay so basically it probably just work.. or work as well if he lets it thaw out.. thx for the help

dumbo22 · Feb 7, 2008, 03:18 PM

Okay so basically it probably just work.. or work as well if he lets it thaw out.. thx for the help

MassNutrition · Feb 7, 2008, 03:22 PM

I love questions like these. I consider myself a steroid guru...

I have done steroid cycles on and off for about 12 years now. Even before I did my first cycle, I researched over and over for 3 YEARS before my first try, to see if it was what I really wanted to do and try.

I am in PERFECT health and I feel great. I have my doctor do blood work for me every 3 weeks while I am on a cycle (a "cycle" is the duration of drug use... example, 16 weeks, 3 months, 8 weeks, etc). There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with steroid use! Steroids are medicinal, and are legal with a perscription... It is the media that LOVES to rip apart steroid use. Find me an article that shows how many people die per year from steroid use? It's all about ethics and morals and "cheating" in sports... nothing else.

The reason for my blood work is to check my liver enzyme count. These enzymes increase when someone takes an oral steroid everyday. It can stress the liver just as if you were to take Advil everyday. But I choose to stay away from orals and stick to injectables only. If I do use an oral steroid, it is for 6 weeks ONLY, and I come off, and continue my cycle with my injectables. There are DOZENS of steroids out there, not just one, and each has it's own anabolic effect on the human body.

Now going back to the question. The steroid that froze is PERFECTLY FINE. There is NO WATER in it. Water cannot enter a sealed vial or ampule. Were there any crystals in it? If so, the crystalization is the actual HORMONE precipitating from the oil base. All he has to do is thaw it out by running the vial (or ampules) under some warm water. If there are no crystals in it, then chances are the oil just thickened a little (became more viscous).

Back in the old days, we used to freeze our steroids on purpose to see if they were real or fakes. If it crystalized, it was REAL.

You said there is no point in taking them because you lose the muscle? That is untrue. If your friend knows EXACTLY what he is doing, he can keep all that new muscle if he does things properly. If he is losing all his muscle when he finishes his cycles, it means he is doing something wrong and needs to be coached properly.

I hope this information helps. Good luck to him.

MassNutrition · Feb 7, 2008, 03:33 PM

I am going to rant a bit here before anyone comes on this post to hijack it and insist how "bad" steroid use is...

As I stated in the previous thread, how many people die or fall terribly ill from steroid use per year? There are absolutely NO articles out there, nor statistic that says so. More people die or fall ill per year from alcohol and tobacco use, and these 2 drugs are PERFECTLY legal at a certain age. Go figure!

People should be more concerned with recreational drug use with their kids than steroid use. Crack? Cocaine? Heroin? I think these are much more serious... When was the last time anyone read an article in the paper about a man (or woman for that matter, because PLENTY of women use performance enhancers as well) who robbed a convenince store to support their steroid habit? NONE. Coke habit? Probably...

They are perfectly safe, and will always be as long as they are not abused, nor taken for granted... just like anything else we may consume. Moderation, responsibility, and common sense...

I can go on and on... just had to put in my 2 cents folks. Sorry for the rant...

Scottish2008 · Feb 8, 2008, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by dumbo22

okay so basicaly it probably just work.. or work as well if he lets it thaw out..thx for the help

I am not to certain about letting it thaw out and it would be safe to us. Like other medicine when you take insulin or what ever other people are taking. It should be kept at a certain room temperature. If it gets frozen it can damage the drug. This can be in the same case. The steroid can be damaged and I would recommend for your friend to stop taking that Steroid. I can't tell you what he should or should not do. But if it was me and I was going to use Steroids and my batch got frozen. I would take the loss and dispose of it and get a new batch.

Scottish2008 · Feb 8, 2008, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by MassNutrition

I love questions like these. I consider myself a steroid guru...

I have done steroid cycles on and off for about 12 years now. Even before I did my first cycle, I researched over and over for 3 YEARS before my first try, to see if it was what I really wanted to do and try.

I am in PERFECT health and I feel great. I have my doctor do blood work for me every 3 weeks while I am on a cycle (a "cycle" is the duration of drug use... example, 16 weeks, 3 months, 8 weeks, etc). There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with steroid use! Steroids are medicinal, and are legal with a perscription... It is the media that LOVES to rip apart steroid use. Find me an article that shows how many people die per year from steroid use? It's all about ethics and morals and "cheating" in sports... nothing else.

The reason for my blood work is to check my liver enzyme count. These enzymes increase when someone takes an oral steroid everyday. It can stress the liver just as if you were to take Advil everyday. But I choose to stay away from orals and stick to injectables only. If I do use an oral steroid, it is for 6 weeks ONLY, and I come off, and continue my cycle with my injectables. There are DOZENS of steroids out there, not just one, and each has it's own anabolic effect on the human body.

Now going back to the question. The steroid that froze is PERFECTLY FINE. There is NO WATER in it. Water cannot enter a sealed vial or ampule. Were there any crystals in it? If so, the crystalization is the actual HORMONE precipitating from the oil base. All he has to do is thaw it out by running the vial (or ampules) under some warm water. If there are no crystals in it, then chances are the oil just thickened a little (became more viscous).

Back in the old days, we used to freeze our steroids on purpose to see if they were real or fakes. If it crystalized, it was REAL.

You said there is no point in taking them because you lose the muscle? That is untrue. If your friend knows EXACTLY what he is doing, he can keep all that new muscle if he does things properly. If he is losing all his muscle when he finishes his cycles, it means he is doing something wrong and needs to be coached properly.

I hope this information helps. Good luck to him.

Have a look at this
In Pursuit of Fitness: Steroids Kill Brain Cells?
BBC NEWS | Health | Steroids 'kill off brain cells'

MassNutrition · Feb 8, 2008, 08:44 AM

Scottish, did you ACTUALLY READ the article before you referenced it and posted it?? First off, the BBC news "found the reason" for 'roid rage, NOT a university, nor from a medical journal...

... and MORE importantly, here is a DIRECT quote from that link:

"There is no established link between "massive cell death" and aggression. It sounds like these researchers are far more concerned with bashing testosterone than providing valuable scientific research. This is junk science at its finest..."

Are you serious? What were you looking to prove?

... and this quote is even FUNNIER:

"Only one problem... bodybuilders don't inject themselves in the head."

Now going back to the ORIGINAL question, the steroid that froze is FINE... just let it thaw. Ask your family doctor if you must. Good luck.

Bocasean · Feb 8, 2008, 09:26 AM

There are 2 sides to every coin.

Phil Kaplan discusses anabolic steroids

templelane · Feb 9, 2008, 01:46 PM

There are no purely anabolic steroids there are always androgenic side-effects.
Psychotropic effects

“Neurones in the brain have androgen receptors to bind testosterone and other androgens.”

Adverse behavioural and psychiatric effects, including euphoria, depression, anxiety, paranoia, and violent behaviour

Male hamsters will voluntarily self-administer highly androgenic steroids, this is a well established animal model method to establish addiction. Some of the male hamsters in this study died during testosterone self-administration, the symptoms appeared like opiate OD. Opiate antagonist naloxone counteracted reinforcing behaviour.

Therefore this, “ data suggest that, at high doses, AAS [Anabolic-androgenic steroids]cause death due to interactions with endogenous opioid systems in the brain.”

You may argue that you are not addicted and that your friends are also find but, “Addiction is not an all-or-none phenomenon.”

Ruth I Wood, “Anabolic Steroids: A Fatal Attraction? “ Journal of Neuroendocrinology, Volume 18, Issue 3, Page 227-228, Mar 2006, doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2826.2006.01407.x

Adverse effects include gynaecomastia, testicular atrophy and subfertility, hypertension, ischaemic heart disease and stroke, stunting of growth among adolescents, hair loss, acne and psychological disturbances. Anabolic steroids have also been associated with some malignancies such as prostate cancer and nephroblastoma. Effects of AAS on the liver include peliosis hepatis, cholestasis and development of hepatic tumours.

S. Bagia P. M. Hewitt and D. L. Morris, “Anabolic Steroid-induced Hepatic Adenomas with Spontaneous Haemorrhage in a Bodybuilder.” ANZ Journal of Surgery, Volume 70, Issue 9, Page 686-687, Sep 2000, doi: 10.1046/j.1440-1622.2000.01932.x

The clinical spectrum of hepatic [liver] injury derived from AAS abuse is ample.
Other than AAS discontinuation, no treatment modality has been established for hepatic injury.

Anabolic–androgenic steroids and liver injury, “Magdalena Sánchez-Osorio, Andrés Duarte-Rojo, Braulio Martínez-Benítez, Aldo Torre and Misael Uribe” Liver International, Volume 28, Issue 2, Page 278-282, Feb 2008, doi: 10.1111/j.1478-3231.2007.01579.x

Well you are beginning to get the picture. These are peer reviewed science journals with supporting clinical, experimental or case study evidence, this is not media hype. The picture isn't pretty. These were just the first ones I came across and had time to read, there are thousands more.

MassNutrition I don't really care what you do with your body but don't give people dangerous advice concerning their health.

MassNutrition · Feb 10, 2008, 07:39 AM

Steroids were developed for MEDICINAL PURPOSES. I agree with some of the statistics on androgens, but this is based on steroid ABUSE. YES, they CAN cause gynocomastia, YES they CAN cause testicular atrophy, YES they CAN cause high blood pressure... and so on. But your findings never included dosage and timing...

So what do we do when our hormone levels begin to diminish with age? HRT (hormone replacement therapy) exists for a reason.

dumbo22 · Feb 13, 2008, 02:28 PM

Okay well I told him I wanted to see his vial.. and after it thawed out it did look fine. There were no crystals in it. Now going back to the point how in the old days that's how you tested it to see if it was real.. there were no crystals in it does this mean that he got the fake stuff.u said it might of thicked and became more viscious? also on his bottel when I lookeed it said it was expired does do anything to.. the guy he got it off you can say a steriod guro too and said nothing about expired being a problem.. thank you again your helping a lot

MassNutrition · Feb 13, 2008, 04:41 PM

It depends on how long it has been expirde for. A steroid will never go "bad". The only thing that happens is that it starts to lose its potency after so many years. If it is within a years past the expiry, it will be fine. For example, if his gear as 100mg/ml strength, then after 5 years past the expiry, it could only be maybe 40-50mg/ml now. The hormones start to degrade. Even after 10 years it will still be fine. Chances are there won't be any hormone left by then, and all he will be doing is injecting sterile oil... you get my point.

Good luck.

dumbo22 · Feb 13, 2008, 11:23 PM

Okay one more thing and I'm done ahha.he was working out of town for 2 weeks and missed it.. or a week. And is going to inject is this bad too or will it just not work as well. I'm going to show him this hole form and I bet hell be like see I told you it isn't bad and try and get me on it hahahaha

Scottish2008 · Feb 14, 2008, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by templelane

MassNutrition I don’t really care what you do with your body but don’t give people dangerous advice concerning their health.

I totally agree.

I have done allot of research on steroids after my first post on this matter. There has been trials done in the past about placing steroids in -25 degrees Celsius. And the studies show no change in steroids (So I stand Corrected). Again though I am no doctor and I would recommend to all people never to us it unless proscribed by a doctor. I have tried to look more in to Steroids being frozen and found nothing on the fact that it would freeze some what like ice. I have yet to see or read about this. I have read about Steroids being placed in below temperatures but nothing on the hand of it freezing. I will stick to my guns on the matter that that batch is damaged. There is allot of health concerns regarding steroids as well. Until some one with the right experience I.E. Scientist or doctor that specializes with Steroids. I will have to say " Tell your friend to stop"

MassNutrition · Feb 14, 2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish2008

Until some one with the right experience...

I would like to think that I have TONS of experience... not laboratory experience, but REAL WORLD experience. I don't quote text books or follow the general concensous of the media. DOCTORS DO STEROIDS TOO! Don't be fooled. I know quite a few sports doctors who "use" and are VERY well educated in all areas of body chemistry, biomechanics, and drug use. I have been fortunate over the years to be coached and educated, and had the opportunity to learn as much as I can from these PROFESSIONALS.

I am not some punk kid here from the street who is talking out of his 'behind'... I respect the human body, my OWN especially, and I would never guide anyone in the wrong direction.

Good luck to your friend, dumbo22. If he, or yourself, is not satified by any of these answers, have him see his family physician and make sure he is HONEST with everything he tells his doctor. His doctor will guide him accordingly.

Bocasean · Feb 14, 2008, 09:14 PM

I'm sure you do have experience, but giving/seeking wholesale advice about such a complex subject as hormonal modification on an Internet forum is probably not a wise idea.

As you just said, he needs to talk to his doctor and get a firm grasp on the entire risk/reward spectrum.

dumbo22 · Mar 9, 2008, 10:24 PM

Also one more thing. He's pretty chubby if he ran and pumped it on roids would he become skiny and big or would he just be more stocky.. thx for your help but I don't know if hed go to doc on that subject

Alty · Mar 9, 2008, 10:59 PM

Here is some info I found;

Reports indicate that use of anabolic steroids produces increases in lean muscle mass, strength, and ability to train longer and harder. Many health hazards of short-term effects are reversible. The major effects of anabolic steroid use include liver tumors, jaundice, fluid retention, and high blood pressure. Additional side effects include the following: for men shrinking of the testicles, reduced sperm count, infertility, baldness, development of breasts; for women growth of facial hair, changes in or cessation of the menstrual cycle, deepened voice; for adolescents growth halted prematurely through premature skeletal maturation and accelerated puberty changes. Researchers report that users may suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility.

Ooh you, sign me up for that (NOT). I'd show your friend this, if shrunken testicles and breasts don't get him to stop then I give up.