[weel]

Hi. I am a landlord that need to have a question or two answered

Today I served my first eviction for nonpayment. Every thing went as expected and the tenant left for work. This apartment is a second story of 2 family. There are separate entrances to each unit and c common stairway to the basement which is also a common area where laundry is done. I also use the common area in the basement to store old and new things needed for repairs of the house. There is an entrance I the rear of the building to the basement common area which I always use. However today of all days someone had blocked the basement door and it would not open. There is an old chain lock on the door that someone had locked so I could not get in. I have a key to the top lock but the other lock I do not have a way to open from outside.
I needed to get in to the basement to do repairs to a leaky valve on a water pipe and get tools for another job I was going to later in the day. The tenants had left and the only way in was through the tenants door. I would have to walk about 6 feet to the basement door to get in the basement. I went to the front door and knocked so if anyone was still there they would hear me. When I knocked the door was not closed and latched, it opened. I opened the door about 10 inches and yelled landlord... there was no answer. So I preceded to enter the hall and go to the basement steps. When I got to the basement door the tenants came back and started yelling at me. I tried to tell them what I was doing but they would not listen. They called the police. Meanwhile I went down stairs and started to get my tools together. The tenants all the while screaming "get out of my house" I was already I the basement and told them I'm here to get my tools and fix the pipes. Then the husband starting yelling how he was going to kick my from upstairs. I told him to calm down and of course that only made things worse. He came downstairs and got in my face yelling and screaming at me how he was going to get some of his boys to beat the out of me. I opened the basement door and walked outside. After about 5 minutes the police still has not arrived so I went back in the basement door to get my tools. Where his 19 year old son was standing and asked me how much he would get for assault. I asked him why do you want to hit me and he said yes many times. This went on for about 3 more minutes and the police arrived. I gave statements to the officer and he took there's also.
Q... my questions are should I be worried about any kind of trespassing charges or something like that. I have never harassed the tenants unless you think calling them whenever they were late on rent. Which was often. I never before entered the unit without at least giving them 24 48 house notice unless there was a problem that needed immediate attention.
Q... I'm a little concerned abut the statements from the father that he would get some of his boys to beat may . Should I file a report or something to protect my family from any problems. I'm not worried about myself too much but my wife will be very upset.
Q... is there anyway I can legally protect my property, the father also said he was going to put a hole in every wall and window and roof..

This is my first eviction and its not going to well. The courts say it will be the 31st before the judge can rule on eviction then another 7 days after that to get them out.
Should I just stay away to avoid trouble or can I go in with the police and videotape before the damage it..
I live in Kentucky and have read a few post but none of them seem to fit my problem.

[N0help4u]

Don't know if it would help but I think you could get them for terroristic threats. I have known people that have done that before.
Stay away from them.
I am not sure what you can do to protect your place in the meantime.

[excon]

Hello weel:

A: No, you are supposed to give reasonable notice, but are allowed to enter an emergency.

A: Sound like just idle threats to me. The cops won't do anything.

A: The only way you can protect your property is to have a hefty security deposit on hand, and a screened tenant who has bank accounts and a job so you know you can sue.

A: Leave them alone. You should have already done a walkthrough with them when they moved in and a damage check list should have already been prepared at that time. When they go, THAT'S when you can videotape the damage.

If you need more information, and even if you don't, I would READ my states landlord tenant law. We have a copy right here at the top of the real estate page on a "sticky note".

It DOES sound like you know what you're doing, kind of sort of.

excon

[N0help4u]

Ex reminded me of this site

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[JudyKayTee]

Hi. I am a landlord that need to have a question or two answered

today i served my first eviction for nonpayment. every thing went as expected and the tenant left for work. this apartment is a second story of 2 family. there are separate entrances to each unit and c common stairway to the basement which is also a common area where laundry is done. i also use the common area in the basement to store old and new things needed for repairs of the house. there is an entrance i the rear of the building to the basement common area which i always use. however today of all days someone had blocked the basement door and it would not open. there is an old chain lock on the door that someone had locked so i could not get in. i have a key to the top lock but the other lock i do not have a way to open from outside.
i needed to get in to the basement to do repairs to a leaky valve on a water pipe and get tools for another job i was going to later in the day. the tenants had left and the only way in was thru the tenants door. i would have to walk about 6 feet to the basement door to get in the basement. i went to the front door and knocked so if anyone was still there they would hear me. when i knocked the door was not closed and latched, it opened. i opened the door about 10 inches and yelled landlord.......... there was no answer. so i preceded to enter the hall and go to the basement steps. when i got to the basement door the tenants came back and started yelling at me. i tried to tell them what i was doing but they would not listen. they called the police. meanwhile i went down stairs and started to get my tools together. the tenants all the while screaming "get out of my house" i was already i the basement and told them im here to get my tools and fix the pipes. then the husband starting yelling how he was going to kick my from upstairs. i told him to calm down and of course that only made things worse. he came downstairs and got in my face yelling and screaming at me how he was going to get some of his boys to beat the out of me. i opened the basement door and walked outside. after about 5 minutes the police still has not arrived so i went back in the basement door to get my tools. where his 19 year old son was standing and asked me how much he would get for assault. i asked him why do you want to hit me and he said yes many times. this went on for about 3 more minutes and the police arrived. i gave statements to the officer and he took theres also.
Q....... my questions are should i be worried about any kind of trespassing charges or something like that. i have never harassed the tenants unless you think calling them whenever they were late on rent. which was often. i never before entered the unit without at least giving them 24 48 house notice unless there was a problem that needed immediate attention.
Q....... im a little concerned abut the statements from the father that he would get some of his boys to beat may . should i file a report or something to protect my family from any problems. im not worried about myself to much but my wife will be very upset.
Q.... is there anyway i can legally protect my property, the father also said he was going to put a hole in every wall and window and roof..

this is my first eviction and its not going to well. the courts say it will be the 31st before the judge can rule on eviction then another 7 days after that to get them out.
should i just stay away to avoid trouble or can i go in with the police and videotape before the damage it..
i live in kentucky and have read a few post but none of them seem to fit my problem.

Did the say they were going to sue you for entering their apartment (which it is as long as they are rent from you)? Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I don't see the immediacy for your entering the apartment - doesn't sound like this repair couldn't wait until someone was home.

And, of course, people are not allowed to threaten each other - so it's your word against theirs.

[Fr_Chuck]

I would actually expect there to be holes in every wall, this sadly is not uncommon in low life rental.
And you should have been sure that the police report showed the threats to your life. You should have called the police yourself.
Also why did you go into "thier" apartment and not into someone else's to go down stairs, You have no right to enter their apartment unless it is an emergancy without prior notice, so you did violate their rights.
As for as the wholes in the wall, it happens, no way to stop it only ability to sue them for damages after it happens, I can't count the number of times I have had to patch dozens of holes in walls, some as large as 2ft round.
I have had the stove and frid stolen several times, once even tore out the kitchen sink.

I would have to ask why you did not have the keys to go into the basement door, if that was your entry way into the basement ( if the basment is a common area)

[michealb]

Sorry to hear about your problem tenants can be a pain.
What did the police say to you when they showed up? You probably don't need to worry about trespassing charges. You didn't break in you had a key and you own the property. I think most of the time when the landlord enters the property without the tenants permission it means you broke the lease. You were still wrong to go in but I'm pretty sure the court will see it as a civil matter not criminal. States will vary on that though I don't know about your state. You may want to hire a lawyer at this point to make sure you follow the letter of the law from now on. Since at this point the eviction may even be at stake because you better believe that they will show up at court with the police report and say that you have been entering the property from the very beginning and they now think your reason the rent money they left in their bedroom sock drawer has gone missing every month and that's why they aren't paying the rent. The lawyer can help with filing any restraining orders or if they can even be filed. I wouldn't worry too much about that though if he didn't beat you right then, it's less likely that he will stew on it and beat you later. :) As for protecting your property in most states your out of luck the law just expects you to file suit later and try to get your money from them after the fact. So make sure you keep good records on who they are so you can garnish wages and bank accounts later and good luck.

[JudyKayTee]

[QUOTE=michealb] You didn't break in you had a key and you own the property. I think most of the time when the landlord enters the property without the tenants permission it means you broke the lease.


This is not correct - yes, you own the property but your tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment and that includes not having you enter without their permission UNLESS it's an emergency.

They could argue constructive eviction and break the lease if they decide to do so but that would turn into your version against their version if you wanted to fight them. But, no, you as the landlord did not break the lease. If so, every landlord who wanted a tenant gone would enter and break the lease.

[michealb]

He still has the legal obligation to follow the lease, I just meant that he was breaking a clause in the lease such as the quiet enjoyment clause. Which when one party breaks a clause in the lease, the other side gets to decide what to do about it. Such as when a tenant breaks the lease by not paying rent the landlord gets to evict on that broken lease agreement. Which is why I told him to hire a lawyer because now that he has broken a clause in the lease he is going to have a hard time enforcing the lease because he is not abiding by it either. I guess I should have been more clear.

[Starrviolet]

Yeah, you are not supposed to enter their apartment unless they are home... UNLESS there is a dire emergency like extreme flooding or what not. You can't just show up to assess damages and yell "Landlord" and when no reply just walk in... thats violating their rights for sure. You may own the apartment.. but they own everything in it, and inside this apartment is their whole life. Now Unfortunately, as far as these threats go, threats alone will not get any attention from the police. I have had certain threats made against me in the past, and tried to report them and in the eyes of the law, unless they actually try to cause harm.. you are pretty much out of luck in that department

[ScottGem]

I'm a little confused by a couple of points. First, you indicate this is a 2 family dwelling and you were evicting the 2nd floor tenant. Who occupies the first floor? Was the apartment you entered the one belonging to the tenant being evicted (why would the 2nd floor apartment have a direct entrance to the basement?).

If the basement is common area, why was it locked? Why didn't you just cut the lock? As the landlord, you had a right to.

What does the lease say about landlord access?

At what point are you in the eviction process? Generally, the first step is pay up or vacate notice. This give the tenant 3-7 days to pay up or move out. The next step may then be to file in the court for an eviction order which would then involve a hearing. At the hearing you can bring up the threats. At the hearing an eviction order will be issued with a date by which they have to be gone. You then contract with a sheriff to show up on the next day to remove them from the premises (if necessary). If it comes to that, I would mention the threats to the sheriff.

[N0help4u]

(why would the 2nd floor apartment have a direct entrance to the basement?).

If the basement is common area, why was it locked? Why didn't you just cut the lock? As the landlord, you had a right to.

Where I live the second floor often has stairs to the basement.

My guess was the tenants locked it from the inside. He was outside and couldn't get to the lock to cut it.

[ScottGem]

Where I live the second floor often has stairs to the basement.

My guess was the tenants locked it from the inside. He was outside and couldn't get to the lock to cut it.

This really doesn't help matters. My questions are questions the OP should answer. It doesn't help for you to conjecture on what the answers would be.

[weel]

Yes the house has a common stairwell that leads to the basement common area. So each tenant can enter the basement from inside their respective apt. the rear entrance to the basement common area had two locks on it 1... a keyed lock and 2... a chain lock that was put there by the previous owner but never used by the tenants, this chain lock was keeping me from accessing the basement common area. This chain lock had been used by the tenants once in a while but if I could not get in I would go to the second floor tenant and knock on the dorr and they would let me in the basement. I could have gone to the first floor apt but the second floor entrance was closer and the first one I knocked on. This had only happened about 3 times in a year in a half. So it was not a common occurrence.
There are other issues with the tenant he never paid on time and I always had to call him when rent was due. I live about 20 miles from the property so it was a real pain to go get the money, at first every month, then it was every week because he never had enough to pay the full rent. I guess in his mind if he didn't have all the money he would not bother to send any of the rent. Like I said it's a different class of people. Anyway I have given them notice I was eviction them and I have already gone to the sheriff, court date is the 31st and I guess they might be gone by then but I'm sure they will stick it out, for the full seven days after the court date.
I guess you live and learn, next time I have to evict someone I will do it a little different.

Now I'm expecting things to be broken and trashed. I have pictures of the apt before they moved in, I'm worried about the washer and dryer being taken out of the basement. Maybe I should remove it before they do..

[N0help4u]

The only other things I can think is make sure you change all the locks they have keys for after they move.

If you are saying the chain lock was on the outside how did you leave by that door instead of going back through the house. I noticed you said -"i opened the basement door and walked outside."

Can you have somebody, like one of the neighbors keep an eye out to see if they try taking anything they shouldn't or if they see anything suspicious?

[Fr_Chuck]

I do wish you luck, maybe this will go well. Most of my rentals over the years have to be "lower" income and it has been a nightmare, a grandma who rented as a single person to live there, latter had two grown daughters and about 6 grandkids in a two bedroom, there were no screens or screen doors, they left windows up in the rain and more.

[JudyKayTee]

yes the house has a common stairwell that leads to the basement common area. so each tenant can enter the basement from inside their respective apt. the rear entrance to the basement common area had two locks on it 1... a keyed lock and 2... a chain lock that was put there by the previous owner but never used by the tenants, this chain lock was keeping me from accessing the basement common area. this chain lock had been used by the tenants once in a while but if i could not get in i would go to the second floor tenant and knock on the dorr and they would let me in the basement. i could have gone to the first floor apt but the second floor entrance was closer and the first one i knocked on. this had only happened about 3 times in a year in a half. so it was not a common occurence.
there are other issues with the tenant he never paid on time and i always had to call him when rent was due. i live about 20 miles from the property so it was a real pain to go get the money, at first every month, then it was every week because he never had enough to pay the full rent. i guess in his mind if he didnt have all the money he would not bother to send any of the rent. like i said its a different class of people. anyway i have given them notice i was eviction them and i have already gone to the sherif, court date is the 31st and i guess they might be gone by then but im sure they will stick it out, for the full seven days after the court date.
i guess you live and learn, next time i have to evict someone i will do it a little different.

now im expecting things to be broken and trashed. i have pictures of the apt before they moved in, im worried about the washer and dryer being taken out of the basement. maybe i should remove it before they do...?

Would I go back over there? You bet I would NOT! You are just asking for trouble! This is a good example of why credit checks, background checks are important when you have rental property - they must have been a "different class of people" when you rented to them; good tenants who are checked and verified "usually" don't end up to be a "different class of people." (Whether it's a common occurrence for you to enter or not does not matter; you had no right to enter. My Attorney told me not to enter my building unless I could literally see flames shooting out of the windows.)

Speaking of amazing tenants - I had tenants on the second floor who turned the third floor attic into an apartment, complete with extension cords, space heaters, a chemical toilet, a hose running up the back of the house, and rented it out! When the Police called me about an illegal occupancy - and guess who was going to be fined - I simply couldn't believe it. I don't want to rent; I don't want to be a landlord. Never again!

[michealb]

JudyKayTee,
It doesn't help your in NY, so you basically had your government working against you right from the start. I wouldn't own rental property in NY either. Most states are a lot more understanding than NY when it comes to having bad tenants.

[N0help4u]

JudyKayTee,
It doesn't help your in NY, so you basically had your government working against you right from the start. I wouldn't own rental property in NY either. Most states are a lot more understanding than NY when it comes to having bad tenants.

Bad tenants usually can't afford to pay for the damage and are long gone no forwarding address for the landlord to do anything if they do do any damage and that is one of the things this guy is worried about. Even if the Judge rules that the tenants owe it would be like getting blood from a stone most likely.

[JudyKayTee]

JudyKayTee,
It doesn't help your in NY, so you basically had your government working against you right from the start. I wouldn't own rental property in NY either. Most states are a lot more understanding than NY when it comes to having bad tenants.

What? How was the Government working against me?