[EIFS EXPERT]

Is it fair that churches pay no taxes yet businesses have to? It seems as if they constantly are begging for your money and appear to be living fat off the hog? Just wondering.

[Fr_Chuck]

Of course churches are not tax free in all nations, but I would assume you are talking about the US. This goes back to the idea of the separation of Church and State. And there are rules that apply where business or profit activies of a church is taxed of course. And I don't see the fat but they operate off the charity of others. And of course since there is no end to the charity they do except limited on the funds they get. Who was there after the hurricane, churches, who does most of the meals and housing for the homeless, the churches.

[NeedKarma]

Of course there is that nagging issue of the televangelists.

[Fr_Chuck]

While I don't like most televangelists, there falls part of the issue,with all freedoms there are those that abuse those rights.

[sGt HarDKorE]

Every pastor I've had and priest I've known have really nice cars, I've seen one with hummer, and had pics of his home for an event and its nice

[Fr_Chuck]

You must go in other circles than I do. Most pastors in the US, are in small churches where they don't even get paid, or not enough to live on, The majority of pastors in the US actually have to work a 2nd job.

After that the larger churches, the pastors have wife's who work.

[Wondergirl]

I grew up in a Lutheran parsonage. We were the poorest family in the congregation. The house we lived in was owned by the church. One car was used from a parishioner who owned a car lot (and my father paid full price for it). A later car was pink and charcoal, and, since the dealer couldn't get rid of it, he sold it to my father at a discount. My mother was a good seamstress, so my sis and I had nearly all homemade clothes. We lived in a rural area, so parishioners were kind enough to bring us bushels of fruits and vegetables which my mother canned and froze. We ate everything on our plates. Thankfully, money wasn't important to my parents who always taught us kids to give thanks to God (and the human donors) for blessings.

As someone else said, most churches use donations and offerings to help others with food, clothing, etc. after they pay the church electric and heat bills.

[sGt HarDKorE]

I go to big churches yes, and they are really wealthy

[shygrneyzs]

I would not put every minister or priest in the same basket, as far as "living off the fat of the land." You may see what is readily visible but you do not see the ones who work outside their church leadership duties or their wives who work or the fact that are expected to give back to the church in tithes and offerings - not to mention the fact that their salary is dependent on the giving of the congregation. A bad year for the members is a bad year for the pastor. Not to mention all the duties of a pastor - being on call for not only their parishioners but can (and are) called to minister to the community.

A job like that is not a job, it is a calling. Worth far more than most receive. It is a shame that you can lump them all together because you see a few living "the good life." Just remember, you do not know what all is going on there either. Someone could have gifted something to that pastor and family.

[Fr_Chuck]

And I will add, that if you are a pastor of lets say a larger church about 2000 members, ( still not a mega church) you will work first a mon to Fri office hours of your 40 hours, which may include hospital visitation, you will also normally have at least a wed night service and a Sunday service, sometimes two services on Sunday, you will be on call 24 hours a day for anyone that has a death, or a baby, or in the hospital. There will be several meetings in the evenings each week for business, ladies and so on.

There will be leadership goups and more.

And they are the manager often over a large staff and budget.

So if you see that pastor making maybe 50,000 to 75,000, that is still nomrally under what their counterparts in the busienss world makes.
And most pastors of a church that size will have to have a DR degree also.

[Choux]

Christianity in America is big business... and big politics.

This kind of activity, including creation of megachurches, does not deserve privileged treatment under the tax laws! Christianity has sunk to a low level having gone into the political business about 30 years ago and resorting to all kinds of unsavory activities such as generating propaganda, outright lying, brainwashing the less intelligent, engaging in cult like behavior...

As you will notice from the news today, the efforts of the Republican Party and the Religious Right to create a ruling government has finally fallen apart in disgrace... the disgrace of the actions of the Bush Administration. The Christo Republicans have splintered into different factions, each faction headed by a candidate who would lose bigtime in the general election in November.

Time to tax the BUSINESS of Christianity.

[shygrneyzs]

There are non Christian churches that do not pay taxes either. The shoe can fit on both feet.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, all religions from Islam to WICCA and Devil Worship are all tax exmpt.

[EIFS EXPERT]

When did it become OK to have ATM's in churches?

[shygrneyzs]

Who said it is OK to do this? What church are you attending anyway? It is not the accepted practice - at not in this state.

[smearcase]

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights. It prohibits the federal legislature from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" (the "Establishment Clause") or that prohibit free exercise of religion (the "Free Exercise Clause"), laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to assemble peaceably, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I am not a lawyer but I believe there are laws that apply when churches conduct business such as a church that I belonged to that was bequeathed some considerable acreage and wanted to develop and sell lots, and was informed they would be taxed.

Also, Jim Baker of PTL went to jail. Laws also govern political activities by churches and churches can lose their tax exempt status for endorsing candidates. Churches staying out of politics is just about impossible. I believe religious issue are so contoversial because the founding fathers were very religious men and their basic philosophy is woven into all of our laws. I think a strong argument came be made either for or against religious influence on govt, or vice versa. Religious freedom cuts both ways.

[excon]

When did it become OK to have ATM's in churches?

Hello EXPERT:

I can see your philosophical argument about a church being tax exempt. However, if they're allowed to accept money, why shouldn't they make it easy for their congregants to give? What? They should make it hard?? I suppose you think they shouldn't accept checks either.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, we have a link on our site you can donate to us by credit card. ** which you alll are free to try and find out how easy it is of course**

I would not see a problem having a credit card machine in the basement or some off room to allow people to get to their funds to donate.
Although checks are even better since there are no fees on checks, on credit cards there are charges on the money.

Although most people don't use cash, since unless they put it in an envolope with their names, it is harder to prove your donation, the majority of money put in is still by check.

[EIFS EXPERT]

I don't particularly care what folks do with their money, or how they choose to disperse it, if they want to give it all away that's on them. All I'm saying is that churches and their pastors should pay taxes.

What would Jesus do? Churches and their pastors have made religion big business. Didn't Jesus get upset and say "Stop making my Fathers' house a market", or something to that effect?

Here in Hampton Roads, I've been to a couple of churches that have ATMS and whose pastors drive Jaguars. There is something wrong about that. If we are supposed to be like Jesus, shouldn't we aspire to give our earthly treasures to the poor or something? Wasn't Jesus broke?

[excon]

Hello again, EI:

You DO know that pastors pay taxes on their Jaguars, don't you? They pay taxes on their income too, just like you do. THEY'RE not exempt. Are the ones you mention hypocrites?? I think so. That's why I don't participate. But, that's a different question than the one you originally posed.

What stops us from taxing churches is the First Amendment to the Constitution. The government can't establish a religion. If the government CAN'T establish a religion, how could it tell one group that likes to smoke marijuana as a sacrifice, that it ISN'T a religion. It can't tell one group that theirs isn't a religion without first having to tell them what a religion is. And, it can't do that.

It can't even write a letter to a church, because it can't even recognize that a church exists. That's the law.

Now, many churches are incorporated, or have accepted the status of a 501C3 tax exempt organization. Both of those are creations of the state. Therefore, they're recognized and communicated with by the government.

However, a church is tax exempt. It says so on the first page of the tax code. Therefore, it is. It doesn't have to DO a thing in order to have that status, except BE a church. For sure, it doesn't have to seek permission from the government to BE tax exempt (501C3), because it already is.

excon