[Silverfoxkit]

I got a Great Dane puppy when he was 6 weeks old. A bit early to leave the mother, yes, but there were 14 in his litter and the mother could not handle all of the puppies. He was a healthy, normal puppy, for the first week, the slowly we began to notice his fronts legs were bending inwards slightly at the joint. Over the last few days it has become much more pronounced. They are now going in at about a 45 degree angle on both front legs. He's not showing any signs of pain or ailment. We won't be able to get him to a vet for several more days due to the holidays. What can be causing this deformity?

[bushg]

Knuckling Over HOD| GREATDANELADY.COM I was given this site by another member... I show you this site because she writes and shows leg problems with Great Dane puppys. Keep in mind that this may or not pertain to your puppys problems. Make sure you go to the vet, also I would try to keep the puppy calm, no rowdy playing until I knew for sure what was going on with his legs.

[labman]

Yes the vet.

[Silverfoxkit]

Thank you so much bushg! The site was very helpful and I believe it is the source of the problem! We'll bring him to a vet to find out for certain when they open again after the holiday is over. He's been eating Science Diet large breed puppy lamb and rice formula, and he's been getting nutrical, is this wrong? Would a different approach be better until the vet visit?

[bushg]

I say leave him alone until you see the vet... You do not want to upset his digestive system by switching foods. Make sure the vet is OK with what you are feeding him.

[labman]

I wouldn't trust any site until you can confirm the information elsewhere. I have seen many links posted here to sites whose advice is out of sync with well accepted studies.

I would cut out the nutrical. The very worst thing for a large breed puppy is too much of too rich of a diet. Even puppy chow alone is too rich for very long, with an early switch to adult chow giving the joints more time to develop. .

[bushg]

Silverfoxkit, I did not show you the site because of the feeding/brand information... I was just trying to provide a site for you to look at this problem. I just know that it helps to ease the fears of not knowing, if you can kind of pinpoint the problem. I can't see your puppys legs and even if I did I could not give you a treatment plan.
I was reading this site because of a discussion, she did on a bloat study and saw some of the puppys legs. When you posted I thought about the Great Dane puppys I saw on the site.
Labman knows more about a puppys growth, more than anyone else here.
Just make sure to see the vet and try not to worry too much until you can, after all you can only do so much.

[Sarah_the_vet_tech]

Always feed your puppy the appropriate food. Puppies need puppy food until they are a year old. When buying puppy food make sure that its for large breed. Adult food does not have enough calcium in it.

[labman]

I am, sorry Sarah, but I am part of a large program breeding 300-400 Labs and other similar breeds. They provide all the medical care for most of them the first year. At the end of it, they do a complete physical including hip X-rays on all of them. They then spent $35,000 training them before giving them away. They have a large data base of breeding records. Dogs with any physical or temperamental problems are unfit for the program and are a waste. With their careful breeding program, keeping the puppies lean, and the early switch to adult chow, virtually all their dogs are rated OFA good or better at a year old. Their well equipped clinic and vet staff are available for serious problems as long as the dog is working. When the dog is no longer able to work, it is replaced at again the $35,000 plus a large emotional upheaval for the person depending on the dog. They have experimented with different diets and exchanged data with other such breeders. Don't you think that what ever they are feeding is healthy and safe? Can you point me to an objective source that is in a position to prove that large breed puppies have stronger joints if they stay on puppy chow?

How many hip X-rays a year does the practice you work for do?

[Sarah_the_vet_tech]

First of all the vet I work for also worked for Hills food company. Improper feeding can increase your puppy's risk of obesity, excessively fast growth, growth-related skeletal problems, poor muscle and bone development and poor immune response. Therefore you need a puppy food that is specific to your puppies needs. In this case it would be a large breed puppy food. I am not going to get all technical with you. I am telling you what I know from experience and what I have been taught. As far as the x-rays I can't tell you how many we do a year. But I do know we do a huge amount of x-rays on German Shepherds and Boxer which are prone to hip problems. I feel that in this case the puppy may have rickets due to being taken from its mother to young. And also having 13 other litter mates causing it to not be able to get the nutrition that it needs. This same thing happen to my mothers dog and with a good diet, nutrical, and pet-tinic it straightened up.

[labman]

Hills makes a good profit on puppy chow. I trust people that give away dogs more. I don't live close enough to the school to use their vets. The nationally know joint specialist I use locally is even stronger on the early switch.

Puppy chow promotes fast growth. If you want sturdy joints, make an early switch to adult chow. I am afraid neither you nor Brenda have as good of access to state of the art dog care as I do.

[Sarah_the_vet_tech]

That's your opinion. I believe what I believe. I have seen it with my own eyes. And yes Hills does make money on puppy food. But they also make money on Adult food.

[wkellys]

I also work for a vet that offers Hill's prescription, and Hill's Science diet out of all the food that we sell there is no one that has been un-happy with any of the food. With all the puppies that we see there first visit we give them a FREE did I say FREE bag of food! There has been zero clients that have been dissatisfied with there puppy food. Out of all the clients that feed there large breed puppies, large breed puppy's food there has been no reported cases of rickets at our clinic. That is what I feel the puppies in this case are suffering from.

[labman]

And how many of the dogs rate OFA good or better at a year old? How many of your clients are in a position to compare how their puppies do to thousands of others?

I really tire of those that blindly insist the conventional wisdom is correct without looking at anything else.

[wkellys]

Did the question say any thing about OFA? NO! Did the question say any thing about comareing puppies? NO! Not here to agrue sorry!

[mydogquestion]

Silver, The best advice for you is going to come from your vet.I hope you have had a chance to see the vet by now. Dogs needs vary depending on there health needs and your vet should be the one you trust with these decisions. There are a vast range of what is Best for feeding your dog. And you will get advice from many points of view. Some will insist their way is the only way.Even Vets and breeders will give what they feel is the best way. and these will vary. Pet owners are like parents sometimes and if you have children you will have similar opinion on what and when to feed you child. Listen to your vet,they know you and your dog best and are in a much better position to give information about the nutritional needs of your pet.

[labman]

The truth is, the vets at the dog guide school are in a much better position to see what works and what doesn't work than the average vet in private practice. They are in a position to see the results of the early switch to the adult chow. Not only them, but it is the standard practice among the service dog schools. Those with an open mind need look at what I have presented.

[bushg]

Labman that is true, but this thread is about Great Dane puppys not Labs or German Sheperds, poodles. Now I don't know if that makes a difference or if the growth rate is the same or different. The nutritional requirements may vary for these much larger puppys in relation to diseases, joint, bone problems, that they may develop or be born with. Or I could be talking out my butt. If I were the op I would investigate the nutrition requirements thoroughly, with vets and a few other Great Dane breeders.

[mydogquestion]

I have to disagree with Labman.Yes the guide school works with a great deal of dogs at a great investment of time and money. But everydog is different. Some breeds have health issues that require different nutritional needs. The vet that sees and treats your own dog is the person best able to give you information about what you feed and when to change its diet. Some of us just have pets not dogs that have been bred or trained as working dogs .So what works for the guide school is not what's is best for all dogs .

[labman]

I see no reason for people going on and on disagreeing with somebody that has much more experience, training, reading, and access to the very best dog care practices.