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So, Unilateral was Bad?
I remember how smug the Brits were when they were lecturing Americans on how to go about winning in Iraq, just after the invasion.
The advice was to push “gently”, and don’t exert too much control…now today they have abandoned the citizens of Basra and left them to the Mahdi Army and other Iranian proxies. The Brits counter-insurgency operations are now widely recognized as a failure and we are now left alone to clean-up the mess. Discussion? |
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
There is a rash of British defeatism regarding Afghanistan too, we have one British commander declaring that there is "no military solution," while another politico declares that Afghanistan is "lost." |
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Membership in 2007 The Council is composed of five permanent members — China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States — and ten non-permament members (with year of term's end): Belgium (2008) Italy (2008) Qatar (2007) Congo (2007) Panama (2008) Slovakia (2007) Ghana (2007) Peru (2007) South Africa (2008) Indonesia (2008) In an earlier post, I stated that Saddam was in violation of 13 UN Security Council Resolutions. I was wrong. It was actually 17. From the U.S. State Department website: Saddam Hussein's Defiance of United Nations Resolutions Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated seventeen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) designed to ensure that Iraq does not pose a threat to international peace and security. In addition to these repeated violations, he has tried, over the past decade, to circumvent UN economic sanctions against Iraq, which are reflected in a number of other resolutions. As noted in the resolutions, Saddam Hussein was required to fulfill many obligations beyond the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Specifically, Saddam Hussein was required to, among other things: allow international weapons inspectors to oversee the destruction of his weapons of mass destruction; not develop new weapons of mass destruction; destroy all of his ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; stop support for terrorism and prevent terrorist organizations from operating within Iraq; help account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and he was required to end his repression of the Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions: UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002 • Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons. • Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents. • States that the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq and that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations. UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999 • Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM). • Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities. • Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners. • Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination. UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998 • "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions. • Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors. UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998 • "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998 • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq." UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997 • "Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment. • Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997 • "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. • Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview. UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997 • "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. • Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview. UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996 • "Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996 • Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994 • "Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait. • Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq. • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors. • Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq. UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991 • Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors. UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991 • "Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687. • "Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. • Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance. • Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs. • Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. • Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities. • Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq. • Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors. UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991 • "Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security." • Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population. • Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance. UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991 • Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities." • Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities. • Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities." • Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction. • Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. • Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program. • Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs. • Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. • Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others. • Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War. UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991 • Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War. • Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War. • Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait. UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990 • Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions." • Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area." Additional UN Security Council Statements In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Every resolution was backed by the threat of force. Of the 15 member nations of the Security Council listed above, which ones have carried through, and which ones have totally bailed and ignored THEIR OWN RESOLUTIONS?? Oh, and by the way, I didn't see "oil" listed anywhere in those resolutions. Did I just miss it? |
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
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So what did you mean when you said: "One difference in America is the option of every citizen to become a part of big business in the form of a stock holder."? Isn't that true of Canada, Japan, Europe, Australia, etc.. What was the point of that statement?
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You would rather make a whole bunch of people poor by busting down corporations than get rich by build one up, in order to feel superior, though. That's a sad statement about you, Needkarma. As for the original post, unilateral isn't bad. Coalition building isn't bad either. It is when doing one or the other acts in other than our nations' best interests that they become good or bad. Waiting for UN approval on an invasion of Iraq was bad for the USA, ergo coalition building of that type was bad. With regard to North Korea, acting unilaterally against them would not have helped our agenda, so building a consensus to force them to give up nuclear arms research was good. The situation determined what ations to take, and whether to work unilaterally or with other nations. Elliot |
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Elliot, you do make me laugh. :)
You would rather make a whole bunch of people poor by busting down corporations than get rich by build one up, in order to feel superior, though. That's a sad statement about you, Needkarma.
The great thing about this country, as opposed to any other, is that it is possible to do so.
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DC
Yeah I remember them lecturing us about the helmets and goggles our troops would wear while their troops were walking around in berets . But it is their leadership that was the problem . The troops on the ground are tough as nails .There was one battle they fought where the Highlanders were outnumbered 20 to 100 . They fixed bayonets and charged . As I recall they only had a few minor casualties in the exchange. The problem was there was this assumption that the Brits were the source of record dealing with urban counter insurgency because of their experiences in N.Ireland . But our troops are seasoned enough now to know that much of the Brit game plan is smoke and mirrors . Basra has become a model of how not to run a counter insurgency campaign. They were given the Southern sector and for a long time now they have garrisoned themselves in a four star hotel out near the airport ,and let radical Iran puppets gain a huge advantage . The Brits have managed to turn one of the more stable areas of Iraq into one of the least.They did a deal with Mookie al-Sadr that they would be left alone in exchange for the Mahdi Army having the freedom to route the security forces that the Brits poorly trained. . They have now declared that they don't like shooting people . The sad part is that the American tactics are working . But when Gen.P next goes to Capitol Hill to report the Dems will say . Look at Basra . We will have to divert some of our troops to protect the supply line from Kuwait and we will have to take over counterinsurgency operation in that key Southern city . Tell you one thing ;if the Iranians ever tried to seize an American ship the sailors wouldn't quietly submit to become hostages . You are also correct that if they view this vital area as not in the sphere of British national interests they sure as hell are not going to think that of Afghanistan . I expect the surrender monkey G.Brown to abandon the commitment there also ,even though there is no question that the operation there is a multi-national NATO one . I wonder if he has procured enough white flags to handle both the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns. |
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I remember in the 80s, there was a movement to divest from South Africa because of apartheid and yes ordinary people made a difference. apartheid Divestment was a major contributor in bringing down the apartheid regime. Renowned South African anti-apartheid activist and Nobel Prize winner Desmond Tutu wrote Grace and Peace |
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I will give you my theory on this. The more government has power the more corporations will try to influence the government. If the government can raise taxes, theoretically making more money, to spend more on entitlements or make new entitlements it gets more power by: 1] taking more money from working citizens 2] enslaving more people and voters with nanny state "programs" to the point they can't do things for themselves and feel the government has to do it for them. Because the government has more and more power, corporations will ever more try to influence government in their own favor. And when government has more and more control, and "evil" job, service, and product producing corporations have less and less, you get... communism/ socialism... And we know how well they treat ordinary citizens. So, if you are really concerned about ordinary citizens, then the solution is to take power away from the government by 1] stop taking more money away from those that actually earn it. 2] rely on yourself not the government 3] and work within the system to change it rather than relying on pandering politicians that lie and can't keep the promises they made to get elected. Grace and Peace |
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