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tchalien · Oct 25, 2007, 07:48 AM

This is an online forum where people ask questions and people answer. BiwiccanAndProud asked why people get offended when questions of religion come up. I shared my thoughts on the question and responded to direct and indirect questions concerning my faith in Jesus Christ. When I say, "Truth", or "fact" I am speaking as a Christian that believes the word of God is perfect and is Truth. I accept that everyone does not feel the same way. I have not ever said "you are going to hell" or anything else "intolerant". If you are offended by my comments, then ask yourself "what did this guy say that is offensive?" Realize I am only sharing my faith and beliefs that I believe are true. If you do not believe them to be true, then you are free to believe anything. I have a belief structure that is based on what Christians believe is TRUTH. If it is not true for you, then you believe something else. Which is your right.

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 07:50 AM

Dude, what everyone believes is TRUTH, not just your doctrine. Realize that and we're on our way.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 07:52 AM

I never said you offended me I said that it offends some people when their beliefs are put into the format of a fact. I never said either that you told me to go to hell, but if you would go to this thread I started

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-...ed-141822.html

You will find that two people so far have told me I'm going to hell for my beliefs (again odd since I do not believe in it's existence). Fr_Chuck and oakshoney both said I would go to hell for being Wicca and for being bi.

tchalien · Oct 25, 2007, 07:56 AM

The problem with "what everyone believes is truth" is that this is not a true statement. If I believe 1+1=4, it doesn't make it true. There is an idea called absolute truth. If you believe and idea or concept, then anything other than that is incorrect, or untrue. This is not a bad thing though. We, as a society have to have absolute truths. Murdering someone in cold blood is WRONG. If someone believes it is OK to kill someone in cold blood, does not make it truth. All I am saying is that I believe in truth. I am NOT saying you are bad for not believing. I am NOT saying anyone is going to HELL. I am simply defending that TO ME, there is absolute truth in the WORD OF GOD. If you are of the opinion that everyone can believe what they want and still be right... Then you do not have that absolute belief.

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by tchalien

The problem with "what everyone believes is truth" is that this is not a true statement.

You are correct, most of the people on this planet agree that what YOU believe is NOT the truth.

Cheers,

NK.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by cal823

christianity is truth....to us
atheism is truth.......to karma (or is it the great spaghetti monster? ;))
wicca is truth...........to you
ya know what i mean?
religious tolerance is important.
you can't say flat statements of "this is the truth", because, thats saying "i know more about what really is the truth than you do" which is a very arrogant thing to say to another person.
theres what you believe, and yes, there is the truth, but we have no way of really knowing the truth, till we die or whatever, and guess what? thats what faith is for.
biwiccan, im curious, (forgive me my ignorance) what is wicca? i never really heard of it.

Truth is very black and white my friend. No gray areas. One can not just make up their own ideas and call it truth just because they choose to believe it. There is a God out there who created us and care about you and everyone and if you humble yourself and open up your heart to Him, He will show himself to you and he will reveal the absolute pure truth to you. But you have to be willing to receive Him and let him reveal himself to you.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 08:05 AM

Okay you are hearing me all wrong tchailen I am saying that everyone can believe what they want but NOTHING is fact on beliefs. I simply was pointing out that when you mention "the truth of god" you speak of it like it's a fact I was trying to ask you for the curtosy to put "I believe in" when you talk about your religion when you don't put that it makes you sound arrogant like your religion is the only true one and no one has a say. I was merely correcting your grammar cause you seem like a nice person and I didn't want people to get the wrong impression of you cause again... from other threads I've seen you on you seem like a nice person. Notice when Cal asked about Wicca I stated everything in the format that it is mine and other wiccans beliefs not the absolute word.

Beetlejuice again you state it like a fact "There is a god out there who created us..." that... is... not... fact. That is your belief, that is what you believe, so please state it as such not like it's a fact. Unlike with tchailen I can't tell if you are meaning it to sound that way or if it is unintentional.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You are correct, most of the people on this planet agree that what YOU believe is NOT the truth.

Cheers,

NK.

There are more Christian Believers in the world than there is any other religion or beliefe of origin. And Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. So if you want to use that argument you are only hurting your point.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 08:25 AM

Well actually... christianity is not as fast growing as you think there are still a lot of people out there who think what you speak is not the truth as there are a lot of religions. I for one don't think your wrong I think what you believe is another possibility of the truth. Wicca is also a fast growing religion, and you have a whole bunch of countries to comb through before you say that there are more christian believers then here is not.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 08:25 AM

Well actually... christianity is not as fast growing as you think there are still a lot of people out there who think what you speak is not the truth as there are a lot of religions. I for one don't think your wrong I think what you believe is another possibility of the truth. Wicca is also a fast growing religion, and you have a whole bunch of countries to comb through before you say that there are more christian believers then here is not.

tchalien · Oct 25, 2007, 08:32 AM

Can I ask you a question BiWiccanAndProud?
What is it about Wicca?
People are drawn to a belief system for a reason.
What drew you to Wicca?

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by BiWiccanAndProud

Okay you are hearing me all wrong tchailen I am saying that everyone can believe what they want but NOTHING is fact on beliefs. I simply was pointing out that when you mention "the truth of god" you speak of it like it's a fact I was trying to ask you for the curtosy to put "I believe in" when you talk about your religion when you don't put that it makes you sound arrogant like your religion is the only true one and no one has a say. I was merely correcting your grammar cause you seem like a nice person and I didn't want people to get the wrong impression of you cause again... from other threads I've seen you on you seem like a nice person. Notice when Cal asked about Wicca I stated everything in the format that it is mine and other wiccans beliefs not the absolute word.

Beetlejuice again you state it like a fact "There is a god out there who created us..." that... is... not... fact. That is your belief, that is what you believe, so please state it as such not like it's a fact. Unlike with tchailen I can't tell if you are meaning it to sound that way or if it is unintentional.

I understand where you are coming from however I know it as a fact that God exist, that is because I have had personal encounters with him. He showed himself to me when I called upon him and I was at my lowest point. I was not even a christain but I had hit such a rock bottom I had no where else to turn. People had told me about jesus before and I thought it was just a bunch of reliogious B.S. But in my lowest point I called upon God and said if you are real help me. Jesus himself showed up and saved from the distuction I was headed for. I was adicted to drugs and could not do shake the adiction, I almost died until I called upon the Him. From that day I had that encounter I have never toughed drugs and have zero desire for them. He changed me instantly and I know he exists because of what he did for me. No one can tell me otherwise because they don't know what I have been through and what God brought me out of. I was not a christian but when I cried out in my lowest moment, it was not Buddha, or muhamed or krishna who showed up but it was Johovah Jesus Christ who saved me and that is how I know for a fact he lives and his word is absolute truth, and I walk with Him every day, I talk to him everyday. And no one will ever undertand until they experience it for themselves.

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by beatlejuice

And no one will ever undertand untill they experience it for themselves.

Most of us won't because most of us don't hit a 'rock bottom' episode in our lives. We seem to manage very well without a deity watching over us.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 08:54 AM

Major Religions Ranked by Size

More than 1/3 of the worlds population is Christian. Making it the largest religion in the world.
In Asia, Christianity is spreading rapidly in China and South Korea.[5]. In the case of South Korea, Christianity has grown so fast that South Korea is now the second largest exporter of Christian missionaries, after the U.S - I got this right out of a secular statisical website.

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 08:57 AM

You're looking at it the wrong way: 77% of the population on this planet is not christian. Not only that but your fundamentalist take on it is an even lower percentage.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Most of us won't because most of us don't hit a 'rock bottom' episode in our lives. We seem to manage very well without a deity watching over us.

Good for you. But for some of us who don't have power over life's circumstances, we have someone who can has the absolute power to pull us out of some of the horrible things life can through at us.

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by beatlejuice

Good for you. But for some of us who dont have power over life's circumstances, we have someone who can has the absolute power to pull us out of some of the horrible things life can through at us.

Actually if you scavenge just this discussion board you'll notice that nearly all of the 'bible-thumper' types have a past of alcohol or drug abuse or a history of neglectful/abusive parenting. If you need something to pull you out of that then that's great, but don't come out yelling that's it's the only truth in the universe to us that manage our lives very well on our own.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You're looking at it the wrong way: 77% of the population on this planet is not christian. Not only that but your fundamentalist take on it is an even lower percentage.

99.9999999999999% of people don't believe in what YOU believe so what's your point? :cool:
So I suppose your right?

NeedKarma · Oct 25, 2007, 09:20 AM

It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong. What matters is that I don't go around saying I have the "TRUTH" and you are going to hell.

Are you seriously choosing a religion because it's the most popular? I really don't care what you choose just keep it to yourself and let others have theirs, in peace.

beatlejuice · Oct 25, 2007, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually if you scavenge just this discussion board you'll notice that nearly all of the 'bible-thumper' types have a past of alcohol or drug abuse or a history of neglectful/abusive parenting. If you need something to pull you out of that then that's great, but don't come out yelling that's it's the only truth in the universe to us that manage our lives very well on our own.

Like I said good for you buddy.;) I suppose you don't need a doctor if you are not sick. But life is funny, you will one day find yourself in a situation beyond you control. But hey No matter what you say My God is the one and only true God and he only reveals Himself to those who are humble enough to admitt they don't have all the answers to life. Jesus said he came to save the lost. I was lost and now I am found. Praise be to God! For saving me and changing me. I am truly grateful to Him and because of it I will serve him all the days of my life and shout on the roof top that He is Lord and savior! Woohoo! :D