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The1888message · Sep 8, 2007, 10:19 AM

Islam has only One god, the Jews have only one God.
Why is it that that mainstream Christianity has god the Father, god that Son and god the Holy Spirit and these three gods are really only one god?

Peace and Grace
David

tickle · Sep 8, 2007, 10:39 AM

The son and the holy spirit are one in the same. Jesus rose after being sacrificed for our sins and became the holy spirit.

Choux · Sep 8, 2007, 12:46 PM

The Christians would just be a sect of Judaism if they didn't have a differentiation in Gods... if they just worshipped GodAlmighty. Despite what Christians say about a trinity, they worship three gods and are viewed by Jews and others as worshipping three gods despite their tortuous explanations to the contrary.

tickle · Sep 8, 2007, 04:01 PM

Have it your way, you won't find argument here

tickle · Sep 8, 2007, 04:02 PM

Have it your way, you find argument in my end of the stick

deist · Sep 8, 2007, 05:06 PM

I hear the trinity is a catholic thing that was retained by the protestants when they parted from the catholic church. I'm a deist, I don't believe God is a trinity.

Wangdoodle · Sep 8, 2007, 07:00 PM

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

Wangdoodle · Sep 8, 2007, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by deist

I hear the trinity is a catholic thing that was retained by the protestants when they parted from the catholic church. I'm a deist, I don't believe God is a trinity.

Yes, the Catholic Church first formally defined the doctrine of the Trinity, however that doesn't necessarily make it a Catholic thing. There are many doctrines that Catholics and non-catholic Christians hold in common. I don't know too many Protestants that would like having those doctrines called Catholic things.;)

Fr_Chuck · Sep 8, 2007, 07:31 PM

Well it is a matter of what one calls the "catholic church" there was only a christian church in the early church, The bishops of both east and west, what is now know as the catholic and orthodox churches were all involved. At this point and time while both the Catholic and the Orthodox can follow their roots back to these early coucils, these are merely christian and were keep for centuries and the basic tennants of Christianity is fairly widely accepted

deist · Sep 8, 2007, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

There are a few verses in the KJV bible that are not found in the Greek manuscripts. 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

firmbeliever · Sep 9, 2007, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

Just curious,
Is it not rather confusing, three being One?

The1888message · Sep 9, 2007, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

But you still have three persons referred to as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And it is the mystery that these three are really one. A mystery that the Bible does not explain but the writings from the Catholic Church explains through many “councils”.
It was in these councils that the debate went back and forth. Between only One God and three gods that equal one god.

Please, can someone explain what Paul in this verse to the followers?
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

Peace and Grace
David

Wangdoodle · Sep 9, 2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by deist

There are a few verses in the KJV bible that are not found in the Greek manuscripts. 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

Correct. I quoted the King James Version because many Christians find it to be the most accurate.

Wangdoodle · Sep 9, 2007, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Just curious,
is it not rather confusing, three being One?

I understand this can be confusing to some when we look at the nature of God the way we view the rest of the world around us. How could Jesus be both fully man and fully God? Something can’t be two things fully; however if God is almighty, then it is possible. I understand the teaching of the Trinity in light of how God has reviled Himself, and I can accept it.

Wangdoodle · Sep 9, 2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by The1888message

But you still have three persons referred to as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And it is the mystery that these three are really one. A mystery that the Bible does not explain but the writings from the Catholic Church explains through many “councils”.
It was in these councils that the debate went back and forth. Between only One God and three gods that equal one god.

Please, can someone explain what Paul in this verse to the followers?
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

Peace and Grace
David

I see this verse as a confession of the previous verse 4. We shall have no idols, for there is only one God. And of course Jesus Christ is Lord.

tickle · Sep 9, 2007, 02:51 PM

We can go on and on about the holy trinity, and go around in circles, if you will. Religion, politics are really two topics that cannot be discussed on this forum, and if you started it,1888 then you must know there will be no easy answer.

Choux · Sep 9, 2007, 03:35 PM

Wang.. The Catholic Church made it up for political reasons.

The1888message · Sep 9, 2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

we can go on and on about the holy trinity, and go around in circles, if you will. Religion, politics are really two topics that cannot be discussed on this forum, and if you started it,1888 then you must know there will be no easy answer.

I am sorry I was unaware that religion and politics cannot be discussed on this forum. I will have to review the rules I guess.

I must say that at least the people on this forum, or at least the ones who have commented to my post, have been very respectful towards each other, and this is something that most forums are greatly lacking.
While I did start it what is wrong with this discussion?
To bring one thoughts and beliefs to the table and to openly talk about them promotes growth and understanding.

However, if I must stop the discussion then I need to know how to stop it.
Could you please advise me?

Peace and Grace
David

paraclete · Sep 10, 2007, 06:23 PM

You are mistaken Christianity has only one God, however he manifests himself to us in three personages. The nature of God is for us to wonder, not for us to attempt to have God conform to our ideas or the ideas of some illiterate desert prophet, so we take what he has revealed to us about himself. Firstly he is the creator, the eternal Father, secondly he is the saviour, the Christ, thirdly he is the Holy Spirit, our comforter and counsellor.

What we have discerned is that throughout history God has provided us with an unfording revelation of himself which is absolutely consistent. Any inconsistancy is not of God, so therefore the truth can only be as God has presented it. He presented it first to the Jews through Moses and then to the gentiles through Jesus there is no need of a third revelation which does not conform to the earlier revelations.

deist · Sep 10, 2007, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by The1888message

I am sorry I was unaware that religion and politics cannot be discussed on this forum. I will have to review the rules I guess.

I must say that at least the people on this forum, or at least the ones who have commented to my post, have been very respectful towards each other, and this is something that most forums are greatly lacking.
While I did start it what is wrong with this discussion?
To bring one thoughts and beliefs to the table and to openly talk about them promotes growth and understanding.

However, if I must stop the discussion then I need to know how to stop it.
Could you please advise me?

Peace and Grace
David

Discussion of religion to my knowledge is not against the rules, after all they have a section for religion & spirituality. They probably have a section for politics too. I don't know about that.