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katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 07:32 PM

Hello.

I feel totally at a loss here and vulnerable to the a/c company who I have a service contract (perhaps foolishly) with.

First my a/c went out last June. I was told it was just a fuse, and it started working fine right away. No big deal, less than 100 bucks. One day later it went out again requiring a new compressor (over 2000.00). Then that's working fine until a few short weeks later and it stops working again, now it's a "capacitor" I guess? Then it's all checked over again and a few weeks later, stops workign again (by the way I live in HOT Arizona) and it's not some kind of relay switch. They also "throw in" a new thermostat claiming it's a 300.00 value and when I check on eBay, the same thermostat is selling for 15 bucks.

Now, just a month or so after that visit, my a/c is out AGAIN. This unit is about 10 years old and a Trane. The tech said last visit that "it should be good to go for another 10 years now". And that lasted one month.

NOW the problem is I can hear the compressor running, feel cold air trickling in but have no fans blowing. It happened sometime during the night last night so I have no idea how long it ran like that and have read that perhaps I blew out my BRAND NEW compressor??

I feel like this company is either directly or inadvertently screwing up the electrical components in my system. I have lived here for 7 years with NO problems with my a/c and since they've been "working on" it, it's been thousands of dollars and problem after problem.

Please can anyone give me advice of how to deal with this when they come out tomorrow? I want to ditch this company all together as I have ZERO confidence in them but I do think they need to fix this latest problem without starting over w/ someone I have no records with.

I'm just in a quandry here and being a single woman, sort of at their mercy. In the meantime my house is like 90+ degrees inside and my cats and I are roasting.

HELP!! :confused:

Fr_Chuck · Aug 26, 2007, 07:35 PM

I think if you have no confidence in a company you don't need them back in your home.

CaptainRich · Aug 26, 2007, 07:41 PM

It sounds like you've got several different thing failing. It can snowball. And I'd guess that with a service contract, they sent whomever was available?

Ten year isn't too soon. Longer is definitely better.

But what you're describing is what I've just been through. One thing after another. Now if you've got cold air trickling out but not flowing like it was before, the evaporator may be frozen over, commonly due to low charge (like from a leak or partial charge)

I ended up replacing both the inside and outside units. You may end up doing the same. If it comes to that, ask friends or coworkers, and shop around. Many service what they sell. And warranties can be similar. Good luck.

katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I think if you have no confidence in a company you don't need them back in your home.

Well yes that would be a simple answer. However, I am in the middle of a heat wave in Arizona and I am on a (paid) service contract w/ them that guarantees I get service within 24 hours and they have all the records of every work that's been done on it in the last 2-3 months vs. waiting several days, finding a place to displace my cats to and starting over w/ someone else. They will also waive the service call because obviously I have had them out so many times. Right now I'm not sure I would have confidence/trust in ANY company working on my system as I just feel kind of traumatized by this happening over and over again in one of the hottest summers on record.

I turned off the entire unit once I realized that allowing even that minute amount of air to trickle in could damage my system.. hopefully it isn't already damaged by that before I figured that out. I had spoken to two workers from this company and neither of them instructed me to do that... I just found that out on my own.

I just wanted some answers from perhaps people "in the know" about this being "normal" for a unit to have all these domino effect problems once something goes or is there something that potentially is sabotaging the entire system. It has not been stable since June after 7 years of NO problems and each time they tell me it's "fixed". And it's not an old unit!

If anyone out there has any constructive advice as to how I can best deal with this technician tomorrow I'd really appreciate it.

acetc · Aug 26, 2007, 08:15 PM

The very least you have is an over priced and incompetent company doing your a/c work, the capacitor should have been replaced along with the compressor as well as the contactor and drier, especially at this price. You may have a leak as Captain Rich stated or you may have a bad indoor fan motor, if they want to charge you for additional repairs I would suggest this is the time to cut all ties with this co. and find a new co. to do your work, you can tell them the history of your system and they can take it from there.Best of luck, Mike

Missouri Bound · Aug 26, 2007, 08:18 PM

Just what is it your service contract pays for? If it's just quick service, forget it... you aren't getting any service if it requires several call backs to fix a simple matter. Tell them to fix it now, since it apparently is their problem, and fix it at their expense. You are the customer, they need to take care of you. Many companies use "service contracts" just to secure an income when business is slow, hoping that they don't need to do anything to earn your loyalty. This company has failed you. Tell them that. Any reputable business knows that one bad word about their service is way more damaging than anything else. Let them know how dissatisfied you are... and tell them what you are telling us.

katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 08:36 PM

Thanks guys.

This guy was very intimidating to me over the phone telling me they can't predict what will fail and when and as far as they know the system is working fine each time when they leave (trying to make it appear I am over reacting or something). This has all occurred in a 3 month time span--these various "failings", as soon as they started "fixing" it. How am I to prove that it's something they are doing incompetently when they are claiming it's just the way things are w/ a/c? It seems to me that something along the way got improperly installed which started a domino effect of other things failing within the system, electrically or something. But I am entirely a lay person which of course they rely on. Am I totally off base?

He did quote that if I need a new "blower" it will run me $600.00. Sigh... does that make sense to what you guys know about a/c issues? Suddenly I'm thinking I'll need a new 'blower' whether I need it or not, you know? In the meantime they know I'm sweltering here in record breaking temps.

I feel like I need to try and get something corrected tomorrow and then ditch this company but time is a factor. I know I sound like I'm just complaining but I am truly trying to get some bearings to deal with this kind of pushy technician tomorrow morning in a way that I can get this resolved. So far it was a contentious conversation ending w/ me hanging up on him this evening and him bragging about the reputation of this company. Arrrrgh.

I can say until the cows come home that I feel it's their responsibility to fix it and they need to guarantee their work beyond a few weeks but that was met with total resistance and indicating it has nothing to do with their work and I will need to pay for each repair on the unit. I feel in a rock and a hard place here and again, being a female you can't imagine what a sitting duck I feel like. :(

Anyway, thanks for the answers and I'm digesting it all... any other just "do this" or "say this" kind of suggestions I'm totally open to.

(believe it or not I'm a very successful business owner but I feel totally out of my element here)

KISS · Aug 26, 2007, 08:37 PM

I suppose it was not evacuated and/or charged properly. This can actually cause compressor damage. The unit being iced over sounds like a possibility.

Moisture in refrigerent lines is premature death.

I was a kid when I helped my father install the house AC system. It was still working last year when it was taken out of service. Never added refrigerant since the original install.
A few minor problems: the hi/lo outside fan speed switch and the outside fan. No big deal.

I installed my AC in a 1982 car from a box. Every 8 years I had to replace two hoses and re-charge. After 17 years the compressor clutch died and I got another car. These issues don't happen with a house AC.

katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 08:41 PM

Hi KISS,

I've been researching online kind of trouble shooting this (how I found this forum) and the icing over thing definitely could be a concern (but it's also a symptom of something else going on I think--not a "normal" response). So I followed the directions and turned off the unit for like 30 min but the fan won't turn on at all... not in the auto mode or the on mode even if the a/c part is on or off. Very cold air is trickling in very very softly but as of last evening, the fan was definitely blowing fine. I also cleaned my filters again (they weren't too bad though) and still... no fan blowing. It is blowing a tiny bit harder after turning it back on after being off but the temp isn't really going down. My upstairs is an oven. Air seems to be coming in a tiny bit more strongly downstairs...

acetc · Aug 26, 2007, 08:46 PM

SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS!! For a fan motor replacement is more then twice as much as it should cost, put them down the road and call a reputable company.

Missouri Bound · Aug 26, 2007, 08:47 PM

Hello again.

From my experience, it is important to remember that even if you know nothing about HVAC, you are still the boss when it comes to service contractors coming to your home. Regardless of what the problem is, it is up to you to let them know that you are the "boss" when they are in your home or workplace, and it's up to them to perform their duties to your level of satisfaction, it's up to them to make things right for you. Things do go wrong with HVAC systems... but that's why you called the professionals. Your money makes up for your lack of knowledge. They are supposed to fix it and fix it correctly. Stand your ground.

katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Missouri Bound

Hello again.

From my experience, it is important to remember that even if you know nothing about HVAC, you are still the boss when it comes to service contractors coming to your home. Regardless of what the problem is, it is up to you to let them know that you are the "boss" when they are in your home or workplace, and it's up to them to perform their duties to your level of satisfaction, it's up to them to make things right for you. Things do go wrong with HVAC systems...but that's why you called the professionals. Your money makes up for your lack of knowledge. They are supposed to fix it and fix it correctly. Stand your ground.

See this is the perspective I'm needing. I know I sound completely like a 3rd grader here (or less) but I simply don't know how to handle a situation where they say "this is what's wrong, this is how much it's going to cost, do you want us to fix it?". And I think it's outrageous, that they "owe" me, that they have at least some responsibility in these things continuing to fail. I just don't have the language.

As far as I'm concerned, it was "fixed" the last time. But they are saying this is a whole new problem they could not have predicted. I really want to stand my ground. I sound so clueless on this but actually I am.

Could you please tell me exactly what you would say to this tech in this situation? Something like "I think it is your responsibility to get this working after these repeated trips which I have paid for over the last three months and don't think I should be held responsible for fixing this one"? Or something like that? He was VERY obstinate that they hold no responsibility for any "new" problems that have occurred. Oh and he also threw in there that I may not have cleaned my filters adequately (in the last month) or somehow closed off some vents that could have caused "whatever"(both of those things not true). Clearly he is NOT taking much responsibility for this, if any.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to coach me through this and any just really basic remedial language will be really helpful to me right now. (kind of embarrassed to be asking like this but it's just the place I'm standing in right now).

Missouri Bound · Aug 26, 2007, 08:57 PM

Give me your Email address if you would like... I would be happy to help you.

katiecoo · Aug 26, 2007, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Missouri Bound

Give me your Email address if you would like...I would be happy to help you.

Thank you. Check your private messages please.

KC13 · Aug 27, 2007, 04:42 AM

WOW! Sound as if you are being taken advantage of due to your vulnerable position (HOT!) and your service contractor is not very thorough. I have to agree with all of the other responses to your situation, sometimes it is better to cut your losses before this ever-growing hole in your pocket gets out of control. Find a new service contractor-check with friends, family, & co-workers regarding their experiences with local companies, and/or the B.B.B. In any event, your current contractor should have some liability to correct this situation. Good luck!

KISS · Aug 27, 2007, 06:17 AM

katiecoo:

Icing is a symptom, not the problem. Also 30 minutes of OFF probably won't put a dent in it.
The fan outside may not be blowing. If this is the case, you can use a box fan outside, but take it in before it rains.

katiecoo · Aug 27, 2007, 06:30 AM

Ok so now the situation is different. I had the a/c OFF all night last night (yes slept in the sweltering AZ heat) went to turn it on this morning and the blower is WORKING. So that would support the icing theory, yes? At least I know he can't hit me up for a new blower for 600 bucks. He's supposed to come "first thing" this morning... so... thoughts??

KC13 · Aug 27, 2007, 07:13 AM

System refrigerant charge should be checked & if low, you have a leak. Considering the recent compressor replacement, it is not unreasonable to suspect that is where the leak is. That should have been apparent to the technician who made the repair if a proper pressure test & evacuation were performed. If you are uncomfortable with their conclusions seek another opinion, but don't reveal your history of problems "up front".

katiecoo · Aug 27, 2007, 07:16 AM

Thank you KC. I've had them out here TWICE since the compressor was installed too. The last time he installed a "fan manager" (if I am reading his writing correctly--a Honeywell part) whatever that is? To the tune of another 200+ bucks. Would that make any sense in the grand scheme of things now??

I was never told I had a "leak" but there has been enough work done on the system and parts replaced that I wouldn't be surprised (as if I know what I'm talking about).

KC13 · Aug 27, 2007, 08:09 AM

I hate to suggest it, but I am getting the impression that they have resorted to some process of trial-and-error in attempting to solve your problems-usually due to a lack of troubleshooting skills. Does the invoice list a part # for the "fan manager"? Sounds like what is referred to as a fan control center, used when different blower speeds are required for heating and cooling modes. You may have a case where the blower motor will run for a while when it is cool, but then overheats & quits, allowing the system to freeze up. An impatient technician may not observe this and arrive at erroneous conclusions.