[gwillen]

My friend just recently (July 31) moved out of her rented house in PA. The place is basically a dump, falling apart. When she and her two housemates moved in, there was furniture already present (the place was rented unfurnished), left by the previous tenants.

The landlord is now refusing to return the deposit, claiming that the cost of moving out the furniture (which was present when they moved in, and they left when they moved out) exceeds the amount of the deposit ($1550).

First of all, I assume that the landlord, with characteristic incompetence, is not going to send a written itemized list of damages within 30 days, as required by PA state law. (My friend did provide a forwarding address; she did it, as the landlord requested, in a written note left with the keys, so she has no evidence that she did so.) Would it be worth it to just wait in radio silence for the remaining 22 days and try to catch him on the technicality when he doesn't provide written notice? If someone is to write him a demand letter, would it be better in the eyes of the law to do it now, rather than waiting?

If she does have to challenge him on the facts, can he charge her for not removing debris which was present when she moved in? If she does not have photographic evidence that the debris was present, is it likely to be impossible for her to recover the deposit?

Additionally, she had to make a $400 pet deposit, which the landlord has neither returned nor made mention of. She is afraid that if she asks for it she will be told that it's being retained to cover the remaining cost of furniture removal. Does she have anything to lose asking for it? And can he legally withhold it for reasons other than pet damage? (I don't have the lease handy but am trying to obtain a copy.)

Thanks very much.
(I have also posted this to another, similar forum -- I hope that doesn't violate the rules here.)

[ScottGem]

First there is no need to cross post on this site, but not a problem if you post to another site.

Second, how has the landlord communicated that they will not be getting the deposit back?

Third, what does the lease say pet deposits?

You are correct, that without proof that the furniture was there at the time they moved in, it may be hard to fight it.

[GoldieMae]

Well, the pet deposit and even the other deposit will depend on what the lease says. As for the rest, if the landlord does not send an itemized list of damages within 30 days, if a written list is required under Pennsylvania law, and not just a verbal statement, then she can take him to small claims court and get the money back.

I wouldn't write him anything yet. I'd wait until the 30 days are up. You don't want to tip him off so that he complies with the law. ;)

[gwillen]

Well, the pet deposit and even the other deposit will depend on what the lease says. As for the rest, if the landlord does not send an itemized list of damages within 30 days, if a written list is required under Pennsylvania law, and not just a verbal statement, then she can take him to small claims court and get the money back.

I wouldn't write him anything yet. I'd wait until the 30 days are up. You don't want to tip him off so that he complies with the law. ;)

That was my thinking too. My friend was going to contact right away, but I have advised her to at least wait a day or two, to give me time to confirm my hunch that she should wait the rest of the 30 days and _then_ demand the deposit back.

[gwillen]

First there is no need to cross post on this site, but not a problem if you post to another site.

Second, how has the landlord communicated that they will not be getting the deposit back?

Third, what does the lease say pet deposits?

You are correct, that without proof that the furniture was there at the time they moved in, it may be hard to fight it.

The landlord has communicated only verbally so far.

I don't know what the lease says yet, I'm waiting on acquiring a copy. She doesn't have one (yes, irresponsible, but the past is past); she thinks one of her ex-housemates does.

[rockinmommy]

That was my thinking too. My friend was going to contact right away, but I have advised her to at least wait a day or two, to give me time to confirm my hunch that she should wait the rest of the 30 days and _then_ demand the deposit back.

Yes, see what the lease says and also check the PA law in the first post on this forum.

I agree to wait the 30 days, too. In many states not only can they sue for the return of the deposit on the technicality, they can sue for twice the deposit - or some other amount determined by law.

Karla