[speechlesstx]

Speaking from the experience of having debated aspects of Mormonism with Mormons, religious and secular liberals and one 'freethinker,' prior to Mitt Romney throwing his hat into the ring it was forbidden to criticize or even question Mormons or Mormonism - especially by a conservative mainstream Christian. Mormons after all, have suffered the severest 'oppression' similar to blacks and Native Americans which leaves them untouchable. I guess that's changed. Left leaning columnist/blogger Polman appears to be changing that 'rule.'

Few Americans voiced concerns about the Mormon faith when Mitt Romney's father ran for president 40 years ago...

But Mitt Romney is a serious contender in 2008, rich and disciplined, and he's running in an era when presidential candidates are virtually expected to parade their religiosity...

So it's no surprise Romney is facing questions about his lifelong devotion to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the breakaway theology that considers itself humankind's "one true church." He had hoped to stonewall this issue, insisting in a TV interview 18 months ago that "I'm never going to get into a discussion about my personal beliefs."

But today word is circulating that Romney will discuss his faith in an autumn speech - and seek to disarm the skeptics much the way John F. Kennedy in 1960 dampened fears that a Catholic president would take orders from Rome.

Romney is dealing with potential hostility, fair or not, on several fronts. Many Christian fundamentalists, particularly southern Baptists, dismiss Mormonism as a cult (thereby imperiling Romney in the GOP primaries, particularly in pivotal South Carolina). Many secular voters are uncomfortable with the church's passion for proselytizing and its superior attitude, particularly its scriptural insistence that all nonbelievers are worshiping "the church of the devil." Pollsters say that at least 30 percent of voters won't back a Mormon.

Romney's biggest problem is that skeptics are simply weirded out. They cannot quite envision having a president who believes that a man named Joseph Smith dug up a book of golden plates, long buried in a hillside, with the help of an angel named Moroni in 1827; that these plates, written in Egyptian hieroglyphics, spelled out the precepts of the true Christian faith; that Smith translated these hieroglyphics by wearing decoder glasses and burying his head in a hat; that Jesus visited North America after the resurrection; that the Garden of Eden was really in Missouri.

As Romney himself recently told conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt, "I believe in my faith. I love my faith, and I would in no way, shape, or form try to distance myself from my faith or the fundamental beliefs of my faith." He was a church leader in Massachusetts, as were his forebears out West. And his great-grandfather had five wives, after being personally instructed to practice polygamy by Smith's successor, Brigham Young.

But does all this mean Romney is too weird to lead America?...

Those arguments might be enough to propel him through the primaries; the general election might be another story. Some questions do seem appropriate.

First, the Mormon faith puts a high premium on "faith-promoting" information, sometimes at the expense of unpleasant facts. As a high-ranking Mormon leader said in a famous 1981 speech, "Some things that are true are not very useful." Would Romney be able to assure swing voters that he would not merely perpetuate the faith-based thinking, and the rejection of empirical reality, that has trapped us in a ruinous war?

Second, since the Mormons consider themselves stewards of "a quintessentially American faith" (Romney's words), and since Mormons believe Jesus will return and rule the world from U.S. territory, does this suggest that a President Romney might wave the flag a bit too fervently, at a time when we need to repair our relations around the world? The Mormon faith is heavily rooted in what is commonly called "American exceptionalism," the belief that we are special and we know best. Would Romney govern accordingly, and, if so, would that be a help or a hindrance in the war on terror?

What matters, in other words, is not whether he really thinks Joseph Smith met an angel in 1827. The crucial issue is whether, or how, a devout Mormon would apply his faith on the job in 2009. His supporters have suggested that any such questions are symptoms of religious bigotry, but it is the Republican Party, over the past several decades, that has put religion front and center. They have made Mitt Romney fair game.

Well now, he's done a great job of highlighting nearly every negative aspect of Mormonism in his column - something I would be raked over the coals for. And it was just a few short months ago the left was absolutely outraged that neocon fundamentalists would be so bigoted as to, as Polman puts it, be "weirded out" at the thought of a Mormon president.

Do you care if Romney is a Mormon? Has the left shifted away from outrage over anti-Mormon bigotry for political expediency?

[CaptainRich]

Personally, I don't care which denomination a president chooses. But he waflles on other issues: one example - pro-choise or pro-life?

Perhaps the question should be, "Would he be a Mormon president, or a president who's Mormon?"

[Choux]

Romney's religion is only a negative for FundiEv Christians who feel they must oppose him solely on a religious basis and not on the issues.

Romney is quoted as saying he is more worried about being ruled out for being a Mormon than being judged negatively for anything else such as being a flip-flopper, etc. objections which he feels he can overcome.

[ETWolverine]

From my perspective, Romney's religion is completely irrelevant. His ACTIONS are what matter. This is also true of any other candidate. At least fom my perspective. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. No caveats. His religion is irrelevant.

[Dark_crow]

Speaking from the experience of having debated aspects of Mormonism with Mormons, religious and secular liberals and one 'freethinker,' prior to Mitt Romney throwing his hat into the ring it was forbidden to criticize or even question Mormons or Mormonism - especially by a conservative mainstream Christian. Mormons after all, have suffered the severest 'oppression' similar to blacks and Native Americans which leaves them untouchable. I guess that's changed. Left leaning columnist/blogger Polman appears to be changing that 'rule.'



Well now, he's done a great job of highlighting nearly every negative aspect of Mormonism in his column - something I would be raked over the coals for. And it was just a few short months ago the left was absolutely outraged that neocon fundamentalists would be so bigoted as to, as Polman puts it, be "weirded out" at the thought of a Mormon president.

Do you care if Romney is a Mormon? Has the left shifted away from outrage over anti-Mormon bigotry for political expediency?

I think he should take Obama's lead: everyone should support the separation of church and state, especially the devout.

“For my friends on the right, I think it would be helpful to remember the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy but also our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment…. It was the forbearers of Evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they didn't want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it. Given this fact, I think that the right might worry a bit more about the dangers of sectarianism.
“Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community.”

[speechlesstx]

True, that may be helpful to Romney with evangelicals, but will the left accept that or are they going to make it a habit to try and undermine him based on his Mormon faith also?

Make that with moderates, not quite as much with evangelicals. Although I think more evangelicals would accept that as a reasonable position than you might think.

[Dark_crow]

Make that with moderates, not quite as much with evangelicals. Although I think more evangelicals would accept that as a reasonable position than you might think.

Pat Robertson didn’t quite see it that way.

“I think what he says is dangerous,” Robertson blustered. “I think that it has a veneer of sophistication and it has a veneer of moderation, a veneer of intelligence, but underneath it he basically is selling out, well, the origins of our nation.

TV preacher Robertson targets Obama - The Carpetbagger Report

[speechlesstx]

Pat Robertson didn’t quite see it that way.

“I think what he says is dangerous,” Robertson blustered. “I think that it has a veneer of sophistication and it has a veneer of moderation, a veneer of intelligence, but underneath it he basically is selling out, well, the origins of our nation.

TV preacher Robertson targets Obama - The Carpetbagger Report

People need to understand that most of us conservative evangelicals really don't listen to or take marching orders from Pat Robertson, as folks on that other board seem to think. Robertson weirds me out more than Romney ever will.

[Fr_Chuck]

I would think that actually for the Christians, his moral values would be a positive thing. But as we note with both Bushes, and Clinton and even my buddy Jimmy Carter, their religon did not show up real strong in most of their President activities.

[tomder55]

Steve;

It is the left and the MSM that makes this an issue as they try to find a wedge that will break the Republican base . The hypocrisy in all of it is Harry Reid is treated like a rock star. His religion doesn't seem to be an issue. I don't even remember the issue being raised when his old man George Romney was a contender.

[excon]

Hello Steve:

Nahhh, I don't care about his religion, but I'll bet all you bible thumpers worry about it.

No, his statement that he would double gitmo is enough for me to throw him in the trashbin.

excon

[ETWolverine]

No, his statement that he would double gitmo is enough for me to throw him in the trashbin.

Yeah, I can understand that. Gitmos is a bad place. Those cordon bleu meals, soccer fields, excersize rooms, religious services, libraries, free medical care, etc. are terrible for the terrorists' state of mind. Instead of doubling the size and population of Gitmo, we should instead just torture the terrorists for information in the field and then kill them. So much less to worry about that way.

[ETWolverine]

excon,

Lemon-baked fish with whole-wheat pita on rice, with vegetables.
Honey glazed chicken with fresh fruit and vegetables.

How often do you eat meals like that? These are typical items on Gitmo's daily menu.

[excon]

Hello again, El:

I said the JOINT - as in federal penitentiary. They DON'T got meals like that there. You're the one who likes Gitmo, not me. So, why is your guy feeding 'em so well?

excon

[GoldieMae]

I could go for some lemon baked chicken... It's almost lunch time.

Here's my take. I don't care a hoot about his religion. Most fundamental Christians don't care a hoot about his religion. The only folks who care a hoot about his religion are liberals who fear the possibility of another Republican in the White House, so they drum up a mock controversy and say it is us Righties who fear his religion. This is the textbook straw man argument. Can't they come up with anything new?

Pat Robertson is irrelevant to all except for a handful of blue hairs who watch his program.

And let's be honest, if there are any Christians out there who care about Romney's religion and they vote, do you really think they're going to switch to the Democrat party over this? No. Of course not. This whole mock controversy is designed to discourage conservative voters. When the polls say that over 50 percent of the population will not even consider voting for their front-running candidate, they need to come up with some kind of controversy, and this is what they have chosen.

Too bad for them Christians these days actually go to school, have graduate degrees, and know how to think. Oh, and we don't inbreed either, in case any of you were wondering. :rolleyes:

[tomder55]

The real question is should anyone's religion be an issue. I say it could be . I would not make Mitt's an issue nor JFK's in the past because they have been very clear that their religion is not the over-riding consideration in the decisions they would make.

I would expect candidates of all faiths including a possible Jewish , Muslim , Hindu ,or atheist candidate to make a similar pledge and would put scrutiny into their performance of the past to see if indeed their actions are the same as their word.

Beyond that their religion in itself is not a disqualifier.

[ETWolverine]

Wondergirl,

Fact. Documented fact. I don't do hearsay.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

excon,

I like Gitmo because it isn't part of the criminal justice system, which makes it a perfect place for POWs who don't belong in the criminal justice system.

Elliot

[Toms777]

Speaking from the experience of having debated aspects of Mormonism with Mormons, religious and secular liberals and one 'freethinker,' prior to Mitt Romney throwing his hat into the ring it was forbidden to criticize or even question Mormons or Mormonism - especially by a conservative mainstream Christian. Mormons after all, have suffered the severest 'oppression' similar to blacks and Native Americans which leaves them untouchable. I guess that's changed. Left leaning columnist/blogger Polman appears to be changing that 'rule.'



Well now, he's done a great job of highlighting nearly every negative aspect of Mormonism in his column - something I would be raked over the coals for. And it was just a few short months ago the left was absolutely outraged that neocon fundamentalists would be so bigoted as to, as Polman puts it, be "weirded out" at the thought of a Mormon president.

Do you care if Romney is a Mormon? Has the left shifted away from outrage over anti-Mormon bigotry for political expediency?

Mormons belong to an occult cult and are servants of the devil.


Tom

[speechlesstx]

Mormons belong to an occult cult and are servants of the devil.

And that would make him the first successful politician to be in that position?