[JonLR92]

I do not think tithing ITSELF can cause blessings, but how you feel when you tith. For example a man who makes 500 a week, and while he takes out the 50 dollars for the tith he thinks man what I could use this money for... I'm sure God doesn't appreciate that, but a man who not only tiths yet gives more HAPPILY, God will have favor with him. I'm not saying to give more then 10% but when you tith to be glad and know what God has done for you and be sure about what you are doing.

[Bubbler]

Jon thanks for your comments

[dreamguy]

So is God going to put a curse on my finances if I don't give money to the church? I don't have any desire to give to an organization.

[JonLR92]

Remember God is just. If you have more then enough to give do it with joy, if you do have but refuse to well its up to you. God is love but also a consuming fire.

[dw1]

There is one aspect of this topic that frequently gets overlooked within the biblical arguments.

And that is the Holy Spirit.
"Of myself I can do nothing, what I see the Father doing, that I do also"
"If ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law"
"I came not to destroy, but to fulfill the law"

The NT contains over 250 references to the Holy Spirit.
Apparently, HE was an integral part of their everyday life.
"It seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit"
"And the Holy Spirit forbade them to go into the city"

How did we get the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit?
It is the gift of God, brought to us by the NEW covenant, paid for by Jesus' blood.
He rent the veil of the Holy of Holies for us to have it.

Think about the wonderful things that Jesus fulfills by the Spirit, in the New Covenant:
- Jesus is the TRUE blood on the doorpost
- Jesus is the TRUE sacrificial lamb
- Jesus gave us the TRUE baptism
- We, his body, are the TRUE temple
- He who is a TRUE Jew is one inwardly
- The TRUE circumcision is of the heart

What if we taught that the only blood on the doorpost is the OT one?
Or how about the only sacrificial lamb is the OT one?
Or how about the only temple is the OT one?
Or how about the only circumcision is the OT one?
Or how about the only Jerusalem is the OT one?

Can you see who is really getting robbed here?
It is the sincere Christian who wants to please God.
He is being robbed of the TRUE tithe.
Isn't it odd that we are told that there is only ONE lingering thing from the OT that doesn't find its fulfillment in Christ, and therefore must be practiced by the letter of the word, as an OT ordinance?
Hmmmmm... what a coincidence!
And what is worse, is those teachers totally ignore God's dictates to the OT priesthood about owning property and not having salaries. While they give themselves a very wide road, they hold God's people to a narrow one.

And what about the rich young ruler? Did he tithe?
Yup! "ALL these things have I done from my youth"
What did he turn down? Following the shepherd's voice.

Would the Holy Spirit lead a believer to financially support a worker of iniquity?
Absolutely not! But Christians who tithe simply to honor an OT dictate do every day.
How many workers of iniquity did Jesus say there would be? "MANY"
You and I don't know who they are, but the Holy Spirit sure does.

When you exercise grace giving, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, HE will bring you into a whole new realm of walking in God, which will effectively explode every aspect of your life. Not just money.
That's the real reason your enemy wants you to keep you giving according to the letter.
Oh... and the workers of iniquity like it too.

[dreamguy]

Pastors are not going to get one dime of my hard earned money. NEVER!

[lexa3749]

In the New Testament tithing has been replaced with giving. However; God's Word never changes. Why would he lie?

[lexa3749]

Also, the Lord says "test me in this, or try Me now in this." We have to believe Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever.

[paraclete]

A lot of taking Scripture ot of context here, make a study of the whole of Sccripture on this subject and dreamguy remember you reap what you sow, if you sow nothing you will reap nothing

[classyT]

Totally changed my position on the topic since 2007. Abraham tithed and that was before the law. Yes, I think that giving the Lord 10% WILL cause the Lord to bless you. I do NOT believe we HAVE to or we are in disobedience if we do not.

[dw1]

Here are the facts about NT Tithing:
1) Tithing is advanced as a NT truth and practice ONLY by those who *solicit funds*.
2) You will not find an internationally recognized bible scholar who will agree with NT Tithing.
3) Tithing was not carried forward by the early church Apostles
4) Tithing was not practiced by the POST Apostolic church
5) Tithing was introduced as a practice by the church of Rome, in Europe during the industrial age. The reason for this was because the church owned vast quantities of farm lands upon which people were living, and were paying 10% of the yearly produce as a *land-tax*. But as the industrial age progressed, people abandoned farming for employment opportunities within the cities. Thus the church’s revenues decreased significantly, and in order to meet demands for expansion tithing was introduced.
6) The church of England patterned its Ecclesiology (ministerial hierarchies) and its Orthopraxy, (membership requirements) after the pattern designed by the church of Rome. Thus tithing was picked up by Protestantism along with many other practices which have their genesis in the church of Rome.

Gordon Fee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fee, calls the teaching of NT tithing *Shameful*
Here is Russel Kelly: http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
Check out any internationally recognized bible encyclopedia or other scholarly material and you will see the above facts are confirmed.
That being said, God is a loving Father. And anyone who gives in child-like sincerity will be blessed by Him, based solely upon the condition of the heart, not upon a financial formula.
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others!” Luke 21:3
But a loving Father would be saddened to see his children locked in permanent infancy.
So that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Eph 4:14

[classyT]

I don't believe nor can I find any teaching in the NT that we must tithe. Having said that dw1, how do you explain the tithe being introduced to Abraham BEFORE the Law? Is there something there the Lord is showing us? After all we( that is all who are in Chirst) are of abraham's seed. What say you?

[dw1]

Hi ClassyT

You raise a good question, and scholars do have a few responses that I can recall.

Typically, they follow these lines:

The Genesis narrative indicates that Abraham was a very wealthy man who obtained his wealth prior to, as well as after he gave the provision of a tithe to Melchizedek.
This fact would seem to invalidate the assertion that tithing has always been God's designed mechanism for financial blessings.

The narrative also indicates that during the whole of Abraham's life, he only tithed once.
This fact would imply that Abraham did not recognize tithing as a practice which he directly correlated as pleasing to God, or as having significance in his relationship with God, or as having significance to the blessings he received from God.

Taking these things into consideration, one is left to assume that Abraham gave a portion of his spoils from that single war as a “thank you” to God, and perhaps as a way to show his desire to honor God through Melchizedek.

Later in the OT, as you rightfully indicate, God does signify tithing as a means of His blessings to the people of Israel (the Malachi narrative). But that was only half of God's requirement. The other half was His requirement to the Levitical priesthood, that they were to not take to themselves any ownership of properties or animals, which in those days were the primary provision of life sustenance. “God was to be their portion”.

As you can see, tithing as it is taught today is a process of strategically “cherry-picking” OT scripture to obtain a strategic end. Ministries today, put forward the duty of OT tithing to an unsuspecting audience, while they silently side-step God's mandate which He specifically gave along with the OT tithe in order to ensure equality, and guard against ministerial abuse.

As you can see, we have plenty of ministries today who follow the example of the high priests “Annas” and “Chaifas” living in million-dollar palaces, having large gardens and servants, obtained by monies extracted from God's people. BTW: The reason there were two high-priests during the Gospel period is because Annas and “Chaifas” were hand picked as “yes-men” for Rome. They were to operate in public as representatives of God, while they secretly swore allegiance to the interests of Rome.
According to God's dictate, there was only to be one high-priest. But Rome had not yet developed a trust for Chaifas during the time of Jesus' ministry. Rome therefore allowed Chaifas to be high-priest in name only, until they were confident he could be trusted. By this time in Jewish history, the high-priests obtained their office by bribery and by secretly pledging elegance to Rome. This information can be found in F.F. Bruce's research on Jewish history. And Jewish encyclopedia.com confirms it as well. So we see, ministerial deceitfulness reaches its apex just prior to the N.T. period. So one can discover ministries following in the footsteps of Annas and Chaifas, if one knows what to look for.

An additional thought to ponder in the business of NT tithing is whether the Clergy Laity dichotomy, as it currently exists within institutional Christianity is the design of the Holy Spirit, or was designed by man. Personally, I am convinced; the current Clergy Laity system is operating in defiance of the original NT design of a corporate ministry which we see exemplified in the NT writings.
It was never God's intent that ministry would be considered a form of employment. Nor that ministry would be considered a professional carrier. These distinctions were later added, first by the introduction of the “Monarchy” as a church office.

There are scholars who have long held that the “NT priesthood of believers” as designed by the Holy Spirit in the early church has been strategically distorted into a *class system* where organizational ordination is the requirement. The early church held spiritual maturity as the sole requirement for ministry. If you remove the *class system* and return to the original design, OT tithing becomes an irrelevancy. Which is basically what the church followed up until the Roman empire changed from being a military empire to a religious empire. But even then, with the advent of the “monarchical episcopate”, tithing did not exist until about 800 A.D.

Hope this finds you well! 

[jakester]

dw1 - good post and very insightful.

I'd like to submit that even before this question gets off the ground, it assumes tithing is a practice for the believer today. I disagree with that starting assumption.

The tithe outlined in the Old Testament law included a lawful, obligatory giving to the priesthood that God had ordained through the covenant. People were required to give a “tithe” to priests much in the same manner that we are required to pay our federal and state taxes. The tithe in Israel consisted of a portion of people's wealth set aside for the priests, who were required to officiate in the performance of their priestly duties and could not make a living outside of this office to which they were called by God. Under the Old Testament law the Israelites lived under a theocracy where God was their king and the priests were the mediators between the people and God. The priests collected the tithes and used the money for various things like dividing the money for the Levites themselves, the various feasts, and for the poor. However, the amount that the people were obligated to pay amounted to more than 10% but was probably closer to something like 23% because it appears that God had divided up tithes into different categories to be taken at key times throughout the year.

However, a careful reading of the Old Testament sections concerning tithes will reveal that beyond what was required in the tithe, there was such a thing as a free-will offering. For this, there was no law. The people were required to pay their tithes for the sake of the Levites, the observances of the feasts and for the poor. The people were obligated to give these tithes under the covenant and I'm arguing that it is very similar to our personal income taxes that we pay today as well as the taxation that all persons were subject to under the Roman rule, including Jesus. But when it came to giving something to God out of personal thankfulness or a joyful or glad heart, God was not requiring a set amount. It was up to the individual whether he or she wanted to give at all and how much he or she wanted to give. Similar to dw1, I believe that was the spirit behind Abraham's giving…out of a thankful heart in light of the spoils gained from war. But that was not required of him and I don't get the impression that the text is trying to convey a practice to be followed from Abraham's example…it's just a fact of what he did.

Also, with respect to the law, if we are to observe tithing and command it as a rule to be followed, we need to bring back the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices, and subject ourselves to the entire Law of Moses. We can't pick which parts to follow, because the Law was to be kept in its entirety: stone your neighbor when he blasphemes God, stone your children when they dishonor you, etc. I don't think any of us are prepared to go back to that.

Incidentally, I'd say that given the plethora of charlatans out there, we need not feel obligated to fill the empty, outstretched hand of someone claiming to be sent from God. I think in the manner in which we ought to scrutinize and test the spirits to see whether they be from God doctrinally, we ought to do the same with money and what we choose to invest in. I'm not saying that if we invest in something that proves to be evil that we have done evil; I think our intention is what matters. But we ought to have wisdom about what we decide to give to. To that end, I don't know that when we give it ought to be with the expectation that we get something back from God…I question that kind of spirit because as I have seen it go, it is usually motivated by wrong desires. It's like James says “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.” To me, even asking this question “Can tithing cause blessings?”, could suggest a wrong motive. It doesn't demand a wrong motive, but it is at least curious…why even ask the question? Giving money to God with the expectation of getting a blessing in return is akin to asking God for something with the wrong motivation. I'm not saying the OP is guilty of that, but I think it is worth examining our motivations in light of giving.

[dw1]

A beautiful post jakester!

Very well said!!

Jesus teaches that we are not to give for the sake of getting on the sermon on the mount.
Quid pro quo is a principle that is fundamental in a human's collaboration with the demonic realm.
Jesus teaches us that our relationship with Him is completely different than that!

Thanks :)