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    rjswinson's Avatar
    rjswinson Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Feb 23, 2015, 05:10 PM
    17 year old in Michigan wants to move in with non custodial parent
    My 17 yr old daughter moved out of her mothers yesterday and moved in with me. We live in Saint Clair County Michigan and so does her mother. Daughter told her mother where she was going. Mother threatened to take me to court and to call the law. I'm the non custodial parent and didn't put my daughter up to this, although this is something she's wanted to do since age 14. I have read law books and researched several cases relating to this matter, and know my rights. Any insight, advice or opinions would be appreciated
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,379, Reputation: 2280
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    #2

    Feb 23, 2015, 07:27 PM
    What visitation rights do you have, when is her birthday?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,278, Reputation: 7690
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    #3

    Feb 24, 2015, 02:35 AM
    The mother can take you to court, You are now in violation of the custody agreement. You by law should return the child to the mother at once. Unless it is your time for visitation. It does not matter what the child wants. The child also could be reported as a runaway and face court action at the Juv court.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 53,915, Reputation: 10852
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    #4

    Feb 24, 2015, 06:18 AM
    You have rights, but they are best enforced in court before a judge, and it seems you have not done so, despite knowing your daughter wanted to live with you for 3 years. You cannot arbitrarily enforce your rights against the custodial parent. You go to court and get custody as the law allows. Unless you do this the right way, your wife has the law behind her, and you, and your daughter, need to do this right, or not at all.

    She goes home to your wife, or you pay the consequences of breaking the law. You may know your rights, but you don't know the process of exercising them very well. Maybe a lawyer can explain them to you, before a judge does, backed up by the cops.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #5

    Feb 24, 2015, 08:17 AM
    If the mother asks for the return of the child and you refuse you could be held for parental kidnapping. It is best you talk to a lawyer from your area right away. You can ask about getting emergency orders in place otherwise you could be in serious trouble.
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    rjswinson Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Feb 24, 2015, 10:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You have rights, but they are best enforced in court before a judge, and it seems you have not done so, despite knowing your daughter wanted to live with you for 3 years. You cannot arbitrarily enforce your rights against the custodial parent. You go to court and get custody as the law allows. Unless you do this the right way, your wife has the law behind her, and you, and your daughter, need to do this right, or not at all.

    She goes home to your wife, or you pay the consequences of breaking the law. You may know your rights, but you don't know the process of exercising them very well. Maybe a lawyer can explain them to you, before a judge does, backed up by the cops.
    Why do I have to fight for custody when she is 17, told her mom she wants to live with me and don't want to live with her. All my ex wife wants is the child support. She's just worried I will go after her for support which is not the case. My daughter is working, in school and will be 18 in may

    Quote Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    If the mother asks for the return of the child and you refuse you could be held for parental kidnapping. It is best you talk to a lawyer from your area right away. You can ask about getting emergency orders in place otherwise you could be in serious trouble.
    She never asked for me to return her home. She just stated she wanted to talk to Brittany. Brittany don't want to talk to her right now unless it's in public. She wanted to wait until she was 18, which is in May but decided to do it now because she found a job and wouldn't have a way to get there unless she stayed with me and my wife

    Quote Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    If the mother asks for the return of the child and you refuse you could be held for parental kidnapping. It is best you talk to a lawyer from your area right away. You can ask about getting emergency orders in place otherwise you could be in serious trouble.
    How is it kidnapping when she is 17, going on 18 in 3 months and she told her mother where she's going. She doesn't want to live with her mother and the cops can't be involved because of her age and after the age of 16 there's no such thing as runaway
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 53,915, Reputation: 10852
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    #7

    Feb 24, 2015, 10:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by rjswinson View Post
    Why do I have to fight for custody when she is 17, told her mom she wants to live with me and don't want to live with her. All my ex wife wants is the child support. She's just worried I will go after her for support which is not the case. My daughter is working, in school and will be 18 in may
    She cannot tell her custodial parent anything by LAW, nor act on her own BY LAW. Neither can YOU. BY LAW she has a perfect right to not compromise with you, or your daughter.

    Haven't you read your own divorce decree? By your own words your wife may have full control of your daughter until May. After all this time a few more months can't hurt unless the whole goal is sticking it to your ex wife.

    http://myfamilylaw.com/library/faq-w...rference-mean/

    http://www.baileyquicklaw.com/crimin...l-interference

    Your ex may be just talking now, but can exercise her rights as a custodial parent whenever, and however, she chooses.
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    rjswinson Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Feb 24, 2015, 10:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    The mother can take you to court, You are now in violation of the custody agreement. You by law should return the child to the mother at once. Unless it is your time for visitation. It does not matter what the child wants. The child also could be reported as a runaway and face court action at the Juv court.
    I returned both my daughters home on time. My 17 year old told me to wait 5 minutes and out she came with a suitcase, got in the car and told me to go. She told me she told her mom where she was going. Her mom went to the court house to tell them I returned them home late and also said she isn't paying child support to me because back support. She mentioned that if she didn't have to pay she might consider letting me have her. Problem is Brittany don't want to go back and will be 18 in May and is working and in school and I'm providing her transportation
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    rjswinson Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Feb 24, 2015, 10:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    She cannot tell her custodial parent anything by LAW,nor act on her own BY LAW. Neither can YOU. BY LAW she has a perfect right to not compromise with you, or your daughter.

    Haven't you read your own divorce decree? By your own words your wife may have full control of your daughter until May. After all this time a few more months can't hurt unless the whole goal is sticking it to your ex wife.

    Let me know how smooth that goes for you.
    You say all this time... how about 11 years. Has it been smooth... hell no. Am I breaking the law, no. Is my daughter, no. I know the law pretty well as it pertains to this issue. MCL 722.3, Juvenile Diversion Act MCL 722.822 (17 year old is not a minor) Michigan Compliance Law MCL 712A.2 (a)(2)8, (3), 722.3, 722.1 ( 17 year old in Michigan has right to leave custodial parents home.

    Interesting case that is pretty similar with mine... case # 11-10116- BC (Reardon v Midland Community Schools) 17 yr old left parents went to school and parents went there to get him. 17 year old refused to go and school wouldn't release him to parents and the whole matter went to trial.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 53,915, Reputation: 10852
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    #10

    Feb 24, 2015, 11:24 AM
    You are right guy, laws mean nothing when it comes to exes fighting over kids or whatever for power and control.

    Can you let us know who wins this round?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #11

    Feb 24, 2015, 01:28 PM
    First MCL 722.3 is about child support and says nothing to support your position.

    Second MCL 722.822, applies to a minor committing a criminal act. Though it does say that a minor is defines as less than 17. But again, not applicable to this situation.

    Third, MCL 712A.2 Also refers to criminal activity.

    Fourth, 722.1 (a) defines a minor as someone under 18.

    Finally, 722.3 also deals primarily with Child Support and I don't see anything that says a 17 year old has the right to leave the custodial parents home.

    Can you give us any specific link to support your claim? I don't see anything that does.

    However, browsing the judgement in the case you recited, MCL 722.151 is the only law you actually need. It states: No person shall knowingly and wilfully aid or abet a child under the age of 17 years to violate an order of a juvenile court or knowingly and wilfully conceal or harbor juvenile runaways who have taken flight from the custody of the court, their parents or legal guardian.

    So this absolves you of responsibility to return your daughter to her mother and give your daughter the right to "runaway" fromt he custodial parent. MI law appears to be unusual and contradictory in this matter. The age of majority is 18, but this particular statute contradicts other law by making it not illegal for you and your daughter to violate a standing court order. The problem here is that, this statute is a defense against a court case brought by the mother and not necessarily a defense to get such a case dismissed. This is not atypical of statutory law. Certain laws are passed to deal with a specific issue and end up contradicting other laws.

    So the bottom line, as I see it, is if the mother pursues trying to have you prosecuted, 722.151 is your defense. On the other hand, a judge could still find you in contempt of court by violating the standing custodial order. And that order could still stand. But since her reaching majority is about 3 months away, a judge may see it as a moot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjswinson View Post
    How is it kidnapping when she is 17, going on 18 in 3 months and she told her mother where she's going. She doesn't want to live with her mother and the cops can't be involved because of her age and after the age of 16 there's no such thing as runaway
    its not kidnapping unless you hide the child's location from the custodial parent. And yes, under MI law as I read it, a 17 year old can no longer be classified as a runaway.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #12

    Feb 25, 2015, 07:53 PM
    Scott Im not so sure what your saying is correct as it applies to the OP. The reason being is that the law your quoting (MCL 722.151) is part of the justice code and not part of family law.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #13

    Feb 25, 2015, 08:13 PM
    How is it kidnapping when she is 17, going on 18 in 3 months and she told her mother where she's going. She doesn't want to live with her mother and the cops can't be involved because of her age and after the age of 16 there's no such thing as runaway



    It can be according to Michigain Law. If you are keeping the child in your home and away from the other parent then you could be in violation of the law.


    http://jeannehannah.typepad.com/files/mcl-750.350.pdf


    Sec. 350a. (1) An adoptive or natural parent of a child shall not take that child, or retain that child for more
    than 24 hours, with the intent to detain or conceal the child from any other parent or legal guardian of the
    child who has custody or parenting time rights pursuant to a lawful court order at the time of the taking or
    retention, or from the person or persons who have adopted the child, or from any other person having lawful
    charge of the child at the time of the taking or retention.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #14

    Feb 26, 2015, 05:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    Scott Im not so sure what your saying is correct as it applies to the OP. The reason being is that the law your quoting (MCL 722.151) is part of the justice code and not part of family law.
    That was the problem with several of the cites given by the OP. But I was going by the way that statute was cited in the decision of the case he mentioned. In any case, how applicable the statues are would be determined by a court, not by the police.

    I don't believe the kidnapping statute applies here. There doesn't appear to be any attempt to conceal the child or prevent her from going back to the parent.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 53,915, Reputation: 10852
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    #15

    Feb 26, 2015, 05:48 AM
    What matters is what the wife chooses to do, and custodial interference is still an option she has for the next 3 months at least.

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