[excon]

Hello Righty's:

Last Tuesday night, in reference to our nation's homeless veterans, Your spokesperson, Bill O'Reilly said: “They may be out there, but there’s not many of them out there. Okay? … If you know where there's a veteran sleeping under a bridge, you call me immediately, and we will make sure that man does not do it.”

He raises an important issue. Unfortunately, he got the facts wrong.

According to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, almost 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night in America, accounting for about one-third of the adult homeless population.

Is your man Bill right or wrong?

excon

[RickJ]

According to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, almost 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night in America, accounting for about one-third of the adult homeless population.

I'm a Righty. Bill O'Reily is just a talking head - there to make a popular show to make Fox a lot of money (just like talk shows on all major networks). He does not speak for the right.

I don't know if he, or the statistic cited above, is right or wrong. I'd like to see the source and how they determined it.

[tomder55]

I think he should then get 200,000 phone calls.

There are a lot of things Bill O gets wrong.

[George_1950]

We will have to look into this. I feel much better knowing one of yours, John Edwards, is out there counting them. One thing of which we can be certain: the VA is a bureaucracy and it is not going to short-change itself in presenting situations that justify its existence and need for more money.

[Dark_crow]

Hi excon

Homeless is the Lefts word for Tramp or Bum. But of course many tramps are Tramps by choice, and then there are the mentally ill, alcoholics, and druggies.

There is no accurate information on the number of homeless people in the US. According to the US Department of Education, only 35% of homeless children and youths lived in shelters. 34% were temporarily living with friends or relatives and 23% in cheap hotels. Very few of these people view themselves as homeless and choose to go to shelters or apply for assistance.

I wonder how many of these veterans are living with friends, families, shelters or cheap hotels.

[speechlesstx]

Ex,

Sure O'Reilly gets some things wrong just like everyone else, but I actually watched that 5 minutes or so where he discussed the issue on Thursday. His point is that Edwards is demagoguing the issue by portraying the plight of "homeless" veterans as an economic issue, part of his "two Americas" scheme, instead of being honest about the reasons.

He spoke with Cheryl Beversdorf, the CEO of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans and Joseph Califano, the president of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse.

Califano stated that "about 90 percent of the homeless in this country have drug problems or alcohol problems or both. And most of those people also have mental health problems of one kind of another."

Beversdorf said, "I keep hearing about the fact that they're on the street. A homeless veteran may not necessarily be on the street. A homeless veteran could be in a community-based organization, which is the kinds of organizations that we represent, that provide support of services and housing for these individuals. Or they could be living with relatives."

From the website of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, NCH Fact Sheet #14 (pdf):

Despite the overrepresentation of veterans in the homeless population, homelessness among veterans is not clearly related to combat military experience. Rather, studies show that homeless veterans appear less likely to have served in combat than housed veterans (Rosenheck, 1996). Similarly, despite the widespread perception that Vietnam-era veterans constitute the majority of homeless veterans, research indicates that the veterans who are at greatest risk of homelessness are those who served during the late Vietnam and post-Vietnam era (Rosenheck, 1996). These veterans had little exposure to combat, but appear to have increased rates of mental illness and addiction disorders, possibly due to recruitment patterns. Faced with a lack of affordable housing, declining job opportunities, and stagnating wages (see "Why are People Homeless?," NCH Fact Sheet #1), people with these disabilities are more vulnerable to homelessness.

Also according to NCH, "76% experience alcohol, drug, or mental health problems" and only "25% have used VA Homeless Services." Surprisingly, it also reports "Homeless veterans are more likely to be white, better educated, and previously or currently married than homeless non-veterans."

All of this indicates to me that O'Reilly is right and Edwards needs to be honest about it. Regardless, O'Reilly said the government should be doing more for these veterans.

Steve

[jillianleab]

Well, according to this article: Homeless in America | Washington ProFile - International News & Information Agency there are 3.5 million homeless people in America. So 200,000 isn't many of 3.5 million. Given how many vets there are in America, I'm sure, statistically, he's right... there aren't many of them out there...

No spin zone indeed! :)

[excon]

Hello again:

In my view, a country ought to do more for its soldiers than we do. I don't care if there are only FIVE of them. I don't care if they're drunk or druggies. I don't care if they're nuts. I don't care what's going on with them. And, I don't care how much it costs us to look after them.

You see, I believe that risking your life for your country is worth whatever it costs your country to take care of you. They gave for us. It's our turn to step up to the plate.

I say this because I, in fact, DO support the troops. Whereas, you don't. You only like 'em when they're doing your killing. But, when they're done doing your bidding, you don't want to hear about 'em.

Indeed, your denials above are quite UN-patriotic.

excon

[tomder55]

The 200,000 figure comes from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Bill O should know that even though I have no doubt that Edwards is demagoguing the issue ;just like he always does with his 2 Americas schtick .


From the VA web cite

VA offers a wide array of special programs and initiatives specifically designed to help homeless veterans live as self-sufficiently and independently as possible. In fact,VA is the only Federal agency that provides substantial hands-on assistance directly to homeless persons. Although limited to veterans and their dependents, VA's major homeless-specific programs constitute the largest integrated network of homeless treatment and assistance services in the country.
VA's specialized homeless veterans treatment programs have grown and developed since they were first authorized in 1987. The programs strive to offer a continuum of services that include:

• aggressive outreach to those veterans living on streets and in shelters who otherwise would not seek assistance;
• clinical assessment and referral to needed medical treatment for physical and psychiatric disorders, including substance abuse;
• long-term sheltered transitional assistance, case management, and rehabilitation;
• employment assistance and linkage with available income supports; and
• supported permanent housing.

What else do you think we should be doing ?

[speechlesstx]

Hello again:

In my view, a country ought to do more for its soldiers than we do. I don't care if there are only FIVE of them. I don't care if they're drunk or druggies. I don't care if they're nuts. I don't care what's going on with them. And, I don't care how much it costs us to look after them.

You see, I believe that risking your life for your country is worth whatever it costs your country to take care of them. They gave for us. It's our turn to step up to the plate.

I say this because I, in fact, DO support the troops. Whereas, you don't. You only like 'em when they're doing your killing. But, when they're done doing your bidding, you don't wanna hear about 'em.

Indeed, your denials above are quite UN-patriotic.

Ex, you misinterpret a few things here. I'm with you 100 percent, they deserve our best. But, I'm also with O'Reilly who DOES support the troops, who DOES take time to visit with them in theater and believes we need to stop using them as a means to a political end. Don't you?

My only point is that the left and their media cohorts are once again taking a statement out of context to smear a man, who truth be told, is an independent, not a Republican point man. HE is the one fighting for truth on the issue, who continually defends their honor, praises their sacrifice and is only trying to stop using these dedicated soldiers as pawns. But then you would never know any of that if it depended on Media Matters or Keith Olbermann... they don't give a damn about the truth.

Steve

[speechlesstx]

the 200,000 figure comes from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Bill O should know that even though I have no doubt that Edwards is demagoguing the issue ;just like he always does with his 2 Americas schtick .

Yep, and Bill can certainly be a boob. He even admitted his comment on paying for vets to be taken to Edwards' home was "an immature remark." But his point is about the demagoguery and the reasons for their homelessness, and I have no doubt he supports our troops and our vets. I'm sure he and Edwards will both be saying more in days to come so stay tuned. Maybe Harry Reid will even condemn O'Reilly on the Senate floor and send him a letter expressing his outrage. :D

[tomder55]

Edwards could care less about the VETS .To him they are a statistic to use in talking points. If he cared so much about them then why did he not act as a lawyer pro bono on their behalf instead of at a Hedge fund ?

[kindj]

Hello again:

In my view, a country ought to do more for its soldiers than we do. I don't care if there are only FIVE of them. I don't care if they're drunk or druggies. I don't care if they're nuts. I don't care what's going on with them. And, I don't care how much it costs us to look after them.

You see, I believe that risking your life for your country is worth whatever it costs your country to take care of you. They gave for us. It's our turn to step up to the plate.

I say this because I, in fact, DO support the troops. Whereas, you don't. You only like 'em when they're doing your killing. But, when they're done doing your bidding, you don't wanna hear about 'em.

Indeed, your denials above are quite UN-patriotic.

excon

I agree with you.

I worked for a while at our local VA Mental Health Clinic. From what I saw there, I would be more willing to just take my chances elsewhere.

I've been turned down by VA for disability for 11 years running now (I re-apply every year) for multiple service-related injuries that have prevented me from pursuing my first choice in civilian careers.

We financed our house via a VA loan. When we got into financial trouble a couple of years ago (largely due to the cost of treating above injuries), the VA was not only ZERO help, they actually did more harm than good.

I don't know if it's budget issues, the low salaries they pay their employees, or what, but the VA's system is screwed from beginning to end.

Therefore, I would not be in the least surprised to hear about a high number of homeless veterans, and find the idea of such things completely revolting, to say the least.

[George_1950]

kindj writes: "I worked for a while at our local VA Mental Health Clinic. From what I saw there, I would be more willing to just take my chances elsewhere.

I've been turned down by VA for disability for 11 years running now (I re-apply every year) for multiple service-related injuries that have prevented me from pursuing my first choice in civilian careers.

We financed our house via a VA loan. When we got into financial trouble a couple of years ago (largely due to the cost of treating above injuries), the VA was not only ZERO help, they actually did more harm than good.

I don't know if it's budget issues, the low salaries they pay their employees, or what, but the VA's system is screwed from beginning to end.

Therefore, I would not be in the least surprised to hear about a high number of homeless veterans, and find the idea of such things completely revolting, to say the least."

Thanks for your endorsement of universal, national, Demorcrat/fascist health care.

[Dark_crow]

Bad personal experience abounds about every health care facility in the world, so I'm not surprised when I hear about a new one.

[excon]

so I'm not surprised when I hear about a new one.

Hello again, DC:

ONE??

The idea I'm trying to get across, which is widely available for viewing on any freeway offramp, is that it's virtually ALL of 'em.

It shouldn't surprise you righty's. Aren't you the party of the bad old government? Well, here's the government being bad. I don't know what's so hard to believe. Is it that you just THINK your veterans are being taken care of, so you assume it's true?

I think O'Reilly did. Frankly, I think he's going to be shocked, if he'd only stop trying to defend himself.

It isn't a left or right thing, either. Our friend, Kindj is as Republican as you get.

excon

[George_1950]

excon writes: "It isn't a left or right thing, either." If you had only listened, you would have heard O'Reilly say exactly that. Methinks you, excon, are much like O'Reilly, perhaps a "curmudgeon", separated at birth.

[tomder55]

I am sure DK's post was not an endorsement of universal health care. It is well known that the VA system is wanting ;just like anything else run by the gvt. It is the nature of the beast.

How do you adequately identify who is the vet among the homeless ;and then what do you do about it ? Job programs and retraining I'm all for .Tuition grants and low cost housing loans... go for it !

Mental Health and drug use is a stickier issue . Do you take them off the streets and drag them to facilities ;to rehab against their will ?

I don't know the answers but I do know that all Edwards is doing is making talking points about them and could care less about their plight.

[George_1950]

No, Tom, the "endorsement" of universal healthcare was from kindj. Not his intention, but testimonial experience of what exists. I am certain that the great majority of government employees are well-intentioned.

[kindj]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm a bit addled, so I guess I'll clarify a bit:

I do NOT support any sort of government-run healthcare system, based largely upon my own (and other people's) experiences with the VA.

By the way, I tend to vote Republican, but I consider myself a conservative Independent.