[jasmine_rezzag]

Is that true that Muslims never have sex before marriage?And all girls are virgins before marriage? How muslims men could control themselves when they feel hot?I am very curious! Any one can say tell me something?:confused:

[red_cartoon]

According to islamic law's, muslims are not allowed to have sex with anyone other than his/her spouse. There are many ways of practicing self control in islam.

Although majority of the muslims follow these rules, there are muslims who break these rules. So statements like 'all girls are virgin' is not 100% true, but almost all are.

[jasmine_rezzag]

That's really pretty!
But is that true muslims men never married non-virgin girls?

[Wondergirl]

Muslim men probably control themselves just like we Americans used to control ourselves in the decades before the '60s. We sublimated by being busy with worthwhile projects at school and at work. TV and movies and magazines were not saturated with sex, and sex was not part of our conversations. Wow, now that I think of it, we must have been a boring bunch back then! The majority of American girls were virgins on their wedding night.

P.S. And we were happy too without all the sex in our faces 24/7!

[red_cartoon]

that's really pretty!
but is that true muslims men never married non-virgin girls?

A lot of muslim men and women have married second or third time in their lives. So the calim that muslims only marry virgin girls is not true. But muslims (men and women) look for chaste partners, that is very true.

[simoneaugie]

Muslim men and women probably masturbate when they "feel hot." They don't drink alcohol either, but I'm sure they can party anyway. It's sad though that Islam is so very patriarchal. Men tend to run things in the Muslim world, thus 50% of their population is "silent". Virginity in unmarried women is the norm in cultures where women are considered property. But, then again, it's only my opinion based on what I grew up with in American society.

[red_cartoon]

... women are considered property. But, then again, it's only my opinion based on what I grew up with in American society.

Please don't get me wrong.

Interestingly, when muslims and (asian people in general) are discussing about westerners, they say something similar. Like "look, they make their women wear little or no clothes". Funny isn't it ? I think it all comes from lack of knowledge of the other part of the world.

There are muslim people living in almost all over asia. Middle east, central asia, china, indian sub-continent, indo-china and other places as well. There are muslims from all over Africa as well. Muslims from different parts of the world practice their national culture along side the rules of Islam. So there are differences between living styles.

I know that many people think muslim women are always wrapped in a thick cloth like thing, never even showing their faces to public. This is only true for the arabian region. In deserts like that you don't expect a lady to open herself to the burning sun, do you ? Even men cover them totally in those regions.

I am from indian-subcontinent. Muslims women (and all other women) here mostly wear a traditional dress called 'sari' . I have a net-friend who happens to be an American. Once she asked me whether my fiancé covers herself up entirely. I said, "no, she wears the traditional dresses". Yes, we do have fiancés, just like you do :), but we have the rules, and we try to follow them as sincerely as we can.

Then there are the places like myanmar, thiland, malaysia. There are also many muslims living in those places. Their way of living is different from ours in the subcontinent or from the arabs in middle east. There are a lot of women-dominated cultures as well. You see, Islam is not about making the women covering herself entirely includeing the face. It just that you have to cover yourself properly whether you are a man or woman. Yes, it is true, men are also supposed to cover up properly.

Most of the westerners get idea of the muslims from looking at the arabs. In this way, you can get a good idea of the arab cultures, but not the muslims' world. Please try to know about all the muslim nations all over the world. That would give you a better idea. Or talk to someone who is muslim rather than asking your friend who also knows about the muslims from watching TV (or something like that) only.

I hope you don't mind me posting such a big message here. Please ask me anything you want to know about the muslims, I will be happy to clear any doubts or wrong idea about muslims. And please, no hurting each other. We are all humans, right :)

[Xrayman]

Like "look, they make their women wear little or no clothes". Funny isn't it ?

Ahh just a minute, we DON'T MAKE them (this is the HUGE difference between cultures)- Just thought I'd make that VERY clear. There is a difference in the perception of women between our cultures... Just let's make that absolutely clear.

There are a lot of women-dominated cultures as well. You see, Islam is not about making the women covering herself entirely includeing the face.

Firstly, name one women-dominated culture... secondly, I've yet to see a man covered head to foot walking the streets...

If we are going to start talking pros and cons of different cultures-lets get some reasonable arguments okay?

[Fr_Chuck]

And if Christian and Jewish men and women are truly devoult and follow the teachigns of their religion, they do not have sex before marriage either and the girls are virgins ( as well as the men) when they get married.

This is the way it is suppose to be for all of the Islamic, Christian and Jewish faiths. If our nation was controlled by one religion and did not have freedom from religion, it may still be that way,
In some cultures the loose non moral mental attitude has not developed well yet. Also the idea of being killed for adultry is a fairly strong motifvation not to.

[Xrayman]

Or being whipped for being RAPED?

Read this! This I'm sorry does nothing for some cultures...

A SAUDI woman sentenced to six months in jail and 200 lashes despite being gang raped has vowed to challenge the ruling in a case that has received wide publicity, embarrassing the Saudi Government.

The case "sums up the major problems that the Saudi judiciary faces,'' the young woman's lawyer, Abdurrahman al-Lahem, said.

Sign the NEWS.com.au petition to help this rape victim


Saudi Arabia, home to Islam's holiest sites, applies a rigorous doctrine of Sunni Islam known as Wahhabism. It imposes strict segregation of the sexes and a host of restrictions on women, who may not mix with men other than relatives and must cover from head to toe in public.

The 19-year-old's identity has not been revealed but she has become known as "Qatif girl,'' after the Shi'ite-populated area of Al-Qatif in the Eastern Province she hails from.

After the rape in October 2006, she was sentenced to 90 lashes for having been in a car with a man who was not a relative.

The Higher Judicial Council granted a retrial, but on November 14, a court toughened her sentence to six months in jail and 200 lashes.

The judges decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media,'' a court source told the English-language daily Arab News.

The court also revoked the licence of Mr Lahem, a leading human rights activist. He has also been summoned by the justice ministry to appear before a disciplinary panel next month.

In the court's view, the girl, who was 18 at the time of the incident, was guilty because she was in the company of a male stranger who apparently had pictures of her she wanted to take back.

Both were abducted and sexually assaulted by a gang of seven men, newspapers said.

The court's "argument was that it was the girl's fault in the first place that (the rape) happened and none of that would have have happened if she had not met up with the non-related male friend,'' Mr Lahem told Arab News.

The young woman belongs to Saudi Arabia's minority Shi'ite community, while the rapists are Sunni.

The men were initially sentenced to one to five years in jail, but those terms were also toughened last week to between two and nine years.

A rape conviction carries the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, but the court did not impose it due to the "lack of witnesses'' and the "absence of confessions,'' the justice ministry said on Tuesday.

The woman's husband told Arab News they would appeal, even though the judge had warned that the sentence could be increased if she loses the appeal.

The justice ministry noted that the law gives the right of appeal, but warned that "resorting to the media, which do not do justice or grant a right,'' has a "negative effect on the other parties in the case.''

[jasmine_rezzag]

Red-cartoon,
Your messages are very great. It should be true that muslims lived in different regions have different rules,or different actions to the rules.I have several muslims classmates when I was in college.at the very beginning I known them, they sticked to their rules and religion strictly which really shocked me! But as longer as they lived with us,I found that they gave up their religion step by step,for examples,they eat pig!they became more open!And I also heard that in their region,there is a world ruled by man only,it is very normal if a man hit his women,and most men are with bad temper,for them,violence is the best way to solve problems,crimes could happen at any time at any places,they even do the same bad things when they go to nonmuslims place! My classmate was thieve her wallet by her compatriots once we went for shopping!horrible!
Xrayman's story is a piece of cake! But I still feel pain after reading it! I have read more horrible news than that when I was a young girl!their actions,their rules,their religions,their laws,their customs shocked me completely!after that I reject to read to listen everything about muslims,but now I am curious! And I still can't understand their strict rules! For what? For love or for peace?
If my words offend any one,I am sorry! I don't meant that! I never mean to hurt any one!

[red_cartoon]

Ahh just a minute, we DON'T MAKE them

I know you don't. People wear whatever they like. But it is a wrong idea that many arab/muslims/asians/indians have about the west. Get my point ?

name one women-dominated culture....

Please come to my place, I will show you many. I will be honored to have a truth-seeking guest like you in my house. I know that there is little chance that you will accept my invitation. So you can do some research for toda,mog,murong and khumi people. Try Google , wikipedia or whatever you like.

I've yet to see a man covered head to foot walking the streets....

I think you need to pay a visit to the arab lands. Not the glamorous city of Dubai or any place like that. Try some rural areas. A city is the worst place to get idea about a country. You can consider visiting our place too. And besides, covering yourself entirely is not what is required. A muslim has to cover up properly with clean clothes. It applicable for both men and women. It is true that many men don't follow this rule, but that is not my point. I just wanted to tell everyone what the rule is. Whether people are following it or not is another issue. One should not wear tight fitting/revealing/transparent clothes. No provoking the strangers - that's the point. You can provoke your spouse as much as you want to :)

If we are going to start talking pros and cons of different cultures-lets get some reasonable arguments okay?

Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to preach something here or prove that we muslims are the better part of the human kind or anything. It seems that people of the west has many wrong ideas about muslims/people of the east. And vice-versa is also true.Our friend jasmine_rezzag wanted to know something about the muslims. So I told her whatever I know of ourselves. If anyone else has any other question, I will try to answer him or her as well.

I know some people will get mad at me just because I am a muslim. And some will try to get aggressive with their posts as well. That is why I am saying again, don't get me wrong. Please try to understand what I am saying.

[red_cartoon]

Red-cartoon,
your messages are very great.

Thank you :)
I appreciate it that a lot of people on this site are encouraging me. In this way may be I can clear some of the doubts and correct some wrong idea about muslims.

... in their region,there is a world ruled by man only,it is very normal if a man hit his women,and most men are with bad temper,for them,violence is the best way to solve problems,crimes could happen at any time at any places,they even do the same bad things when they go to nonmuslims place! my classmate was thieve her wallet by her compatriots once we went for shopping!horrible!

It is true that many muslim countries have male-dominated society, but its not due to Islam. They have been living like that since the birth of their civilizations. About hitting a woman : NO NO NO , you are not supposed to hit your wife or any woman or any person ( unless you are fighting in a war). The highest punishment that a man can give to his wife is, slap her once (or twice may be). And that is allowed only when the man is 110% sure that his wife is cheating and going to ruin the marriage. In a situation like that the husband can talk to her, scold her, stop talking to her, stop having intimacy with her... there is a long list of thing he can do to save his marriage. If the first one does not work then the next one should be applied. And the last thing he can do is , slap her once. If this does not work either, then he can take the option of divorce. Please be noted, divorce is the option available after your most severe punishment (slap her once) fails, not before that. So you see, hitting is not really permitted as a common practice. In fact, if I hit my wife badly, she will complain about it to someone. May be her parents,siblings or my parent,siblings our children will see that, some strangers might get to know it someday as well. These are considered to be of great shame. So no self respecting man will hit his wife. Your friends were perhaps from a place where they do not teach and practice all the Islamic rules. They chose to practice the hitting-beating part only. This is actually a malpractice, you see. Islam should not be labeled 'bad' because of this.

... most men are with bad temper,for them,violence is the best way to solve problems,crimes could happen at any time at any places,they even do the same bad things when they go to nonmuslims place! my classmate was thieve her wallet by her compatriots once we went for shopping!horrible!

No no, violence is a big 'NO' in Islam. You should not even get angry, if you get angry for some reason then your good deeds will start to reduce and sins will start growing. I admit I get angry a lot of times, and thus I am not a good muslim, but I try to be one. The person who stole the wallet has done something very wrong. He/she has put all the muslims in great shame. I humbly apologize for that. I would also request to understand that you cannot judge all the muslims from observing only a handful of people. May be thief was actually a thief in his/her own country as well, before visiting your place. The skill of stealing is not a part of the teaching of Islam. It is perhaps his own personal teaching. And from what I have read already about these classmates of yours, they are not practicing muslims. You should not observe a sheep to know about a zebra, although they are both herbivorous. Similarly, you should not get any idea of the muslims from some criminal-minded-non-practicing people.

Since I am from the subcontinent, I know that many people have bad ideas about westerners in general. How did this happen ? Because in the colonial era, all the white men my ancestors saw were very cruel to the native people. It's a long long history of some 200 years. But today, I know that there are good people as well as bad people among the westerners. Just like the mixture of good and bad in our society. Right ? :)

[Xrayman]

The highest punishment that a man can give to his wife is, slap her once (or twice may be). And that is allowed only when the man is 110% sure that his wife is cheating and going to ruin the marriage. In a situation like that the husband can talk to her, scold her, stop talking to her, stop having intimacy with her... there is a long list of thing he can do to save his marriage. If the first one does not work then the next one should be applied. And the last thing he can do is , slap her once. If this does not work either, then he can take the option of divorce. Please be noted, divorce is the option available after your most severe punishment (slap her once) fails, not before that.

Like I said... You are not doing much to help the cause of Islam with this...

Just a question, What is the highest punishment a wife can "give" to her husband??

Once again, your post is not helping...

I know some people will get mad at me just because I am a muslim. And some will try to get aggressive with their posts as well. That is why I am saying again, don't get me wrong. Please try to understand what I am saying.

Okay maybe I'm losing the point-but I am not hassling you because you are a Muslim-just the one rule for men and another for women in that particular culture.

I work with muslims and have muslim friends, I was just stating that there are some "imbalances" there.

[red_cartoon]

Like I said...You are not doing much to help the cause of Islam with this...

Just a question, What is the highest punishment a wife can "give" to her husband???

Once again, your post is not helping...

I knew you would ask this :)

She can hit him a lot if she wishes to, in theory. But in practice, most women are not able to hit their husbands.
So when the wife is sure that her husband is cheating, she can talk to him about it. Scold him. Bring it to the knowledge of the husbands parents and siblings. If none works then she can divorce him and take a part of his wealth and say 'bye bye' for good.

[Xrayman]

If a husband "cheats" on his wife, can she slap him around? Or is she likely to have acid thrown in her face or whipped as a public humiliation?

[Xrayman]

Okay. I understand. I won't post anything further here as it irks me too much-thanks for your reponses though! Cheers red_cartoon.

[red_cartoon]

if a husband "cheats" on his wife, can she slap him around?

I have edited my previous post, please have a look at that. Something I missed in my previous post : divorce is not really encouraged in Islam. So people are supposed to talk to their spouse to fix family problems. Next step is the parent and siblings of the spouse. Then there is another stage where parents/siblings from both the man and the woman's family sit together to discuss things. There is a long list of things to do in such cases. If one fails then the next and so on. Divorce is the ultimate las option. Available only when all other options fail.

[jasmine_rezzag]

OK,guys, I am very happy to read your posts! They are really help me a lot!
I am chinese,I can only find out something about muslims of china through my eyes, for other muslims,I read about them by news,TV,internet... maybe something I heard I read is not true.but for muslims of china,I found they are really more violent!most people agree to that! As vioilence always happen in the place where they live!maybe their cultures and their religion are too complicated!I don't know!sure there are good people and bad people in this world,but to be honest,muslims really give me a bad impression,that is another reason why I want to know more about them.I do not meant to offend you,red-cartoon,you are a nice guy and you are my friend!hope you don't mind,and don't get angry with me!

[red_cartoon]

Hey jasmine_rezzag, I did not mind at all. I am actually happy that you expressed your feelings. Happy to be your friend :)

By the way... I have always had good ideas about chinese muslims. I thought they were non violent. I know some nice muslim people who happens to be chinese. I have learned some good things from some of those elders. So I thought all the muslims in china are very wise and nice. I am really sorry to know that it is not true. I hope someday you will also meet nice muslim people like that and start to believe that there are a lot of non violent and nice muslims in china and all over the world.