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Jimbob51 · Feb 9, 2006, 12:03 PM

I'm having a concrete patio poured, and the contractor (his workers) poured the concrete to where it's making contact, and in some areas, is over the bottom edge of the Hardi-Plank siding that is on our house in the back. Is this something that I really need to be worried about?. or am I just being a stickler for details in having them chip-out the concrete? It's my understanding that the siding's drip edge needs to function properly, or moisture will seep back under the siding's edge and possibly cause mildew or moisture problems on the inside walls. And they've NOT installed any kind of expansion joint between the poured patio and the house slab. Is this something I need to be concerned about also?

I originally told them I wanted the patio to be poured to a depth to 1" below the edge of the siding all the way around, because I intended to lay terra cotta tile later this spring. They did that only on one side of the patio by our backdoor, but looks like they were more intent on creating a slope for runoff and got carried away with it. They're chipping it out now, but I wished we hadn't gotten that far before they had to deal with it.

magprob · Feb 10, 2006, 09:43 AM

They screwed up! Make them fix it the way you wanted it. There should be an expansion joint between. If you are going to cover it, how muck drop for run off does it really need. A quarter inch per foot? That would be 2 1/2 inches in 10 feet.

labman · Feb 10, 2006, 09:57 AM

The way they poured it, termites could come up between the slab and foundation into the siding. You must have a gap between any masonry and the frame of the house. I think code may call for 8''.

magprob · Feb 10, 2006, 10:53 AM

Eight inches is the biggest expansion joint I've ever heard of but if thatis code... oh well. Just don't fall in when you go out back!

Jimbob51 · Feb 10, 2006, 06:13 PM

Yeah, if I'd known more about it before they even started, I would've scribed a line 1" below the edge of the bottom row of siding in the corners (at the back of the house), giving the required 1/4" drop per foot. Funny that you'd mention the 2.5" drop over a 10' distance, for 10' IS the distance that the patio goes out from the house on both sides. But I should've scribed the line out to the corner stake at 10' and pulled the string tight to mark the grade line for the surface. Then I should've connected the two 10' stakes across the front edge of the patio. If I'd known about the expansion joints being a MUST, I would've brought that up then also. But the patio is such a mess now, that I just want them to get it graded, swept and NOT holding water now. I guess I'll ask them about the expansion joint when they come back in the morning (IF they show), and see where we go from there.

skiberger · Feb 10, 2006, 08:47 PM

8" isnt the expansion joint, its the distance from the top of the slab to the lower edge of the siding labman was taking about. That basically applies from finish grade to siding.
The expansion joint is need if the patio is not connected by rebar to the foundation. Some mason's will insert rebar into the foundation and let it stick out into the pour. This "connects" the patio to the foundation. It prevents future settling of the slab.
If the patio is "floating", an expansion joint should have been installed. This acts as a bumper so when the slab moves it won't cause pressure against the foundation and cause possible cracking/heaving to the slab itself or the foundation (mostly w/ block foundations).
There is really not much that can be done to get an expansion joint installed after its poured unless you want them to further butcher your patio.
If all else fails, report them to the Better Business Bureau.

magprob · Feb 10, 2006, 09:36 PM

That's true, or maybe rent a concrete saw and cut a few control joints.

Jimbob51 · Feb 11, 2006, 05:40 AM

Thanks skiberger, I guess that answers it; they did a pretty credible job of drilling holes in the house slab and attaching the patio slab to it with the rebar. So you've answered my question concerning the expansion joint; I guess I shouldn't have been so concerned since the rebar was used, which I understood was the standard. I'm glad for that. I guess I was thinking that the expansion joint was still needed to help in contracting and expanding of the patio in the future. Now if they can just show up today after it dries up a little, then they might get to applying the coat of thinset. It's supposed to be in the low '30s here today and tonight, so I don't think they'll even show; a strong coldfront blew through the Houston area last night, with lots of rain, so who knows what'll happen today.

To think that all of this hopefully could have been avoided if I'd just scribed a line 1" below the bottom edge of the siding and made it clear to them exactly what I wanted; the boss of the company is the only one who speaks English, and then that's still iffy.

magprob · Feb 15, 2006, 07:33 PM

So how did it come out? OK/ Not OK. Curious!

Jimbob51 · Feb 16, 2006, 04:20 PM

They're still working on it; meaning that the job is still not complete. They chipped it out down a couple of inches over the entire surface of the patio, and then repoured. The first day of the repour, they didn't bring enough concrete mix, so they only got it poured into one corner of the patio. They worked it relatively smooth and even, 1" below the siding, but the mix looked dry and pretty thick to deal with; it came out OK. The second day that they repoured, they STILL poured it too close to the house, and another wave of cement goes up on the side of the house even higher than the first waveline. But they worked it smoothing it relatively smooth even with the remaining portion of the patio surface. They've just now knocked on the door asking for what color paint the builder used on the outside -- yep, they showed up with a painter to take care of the cement schplatter and the screwup of the first crew. He says a power washer will take care of the cement on the side of the house, and will repaint the Hardy-Plank afterward. In the meantime the backyard is still a mess with broken concrete piled up, and form boards, and their personal trash. He says they'll take care of all of it, including the broken outlet cover that was broken by the first crew. It doesn't matter; we have company coming over Saturday for a church Valentine's Party, but the backdoor will be closed as the backyard is out of bounds.

He came on a Thursday to give an estimate, and said he's got other jobs that will tie them up for a couple of weeks, but he'll call before they come. They show up bright & early MONDAY morning, with NO call, to dig the foundation and set the forms. With the 2nd shovel in the ground, they cut the gasline coming into the house before the meter. They bend the line double and tape it closed for the gas company to come repair the line, which they did. I'm going to have to pay for the repair. They break the outlet cover on the back of the house. They overpour the form, and schplatter cement all over the back of the house. They pour the cement too close to the house, and in one area 3" over the bottom of the siding, ignoring my directions to pour it to 1" below the siding. AFTER the fact, they have to jackhammer it back down, and have to repour, and only do a so-so job of the repour and finishing. It didn't have to be perfectly smooth, just even and level, and with a swept surface for I intend to lay terra cotta tile later over it. But to have to go through all of this, extending a 3-day job into a running 2-week job is ridiculous. Now we're getting into a rainy period, so who knows when it'll be finished.

NO, I don't care HOW well he makes it good, NO, I cannot and will NOT recommend this particular contractor for other jobs. No, I wouldn't do that to my friends and neighbors.

magprob · Feb 16, 2006, 09:08 PM

Good lord almighty I'm almost sorry I asked. Why, I actually started crying half way through it. :p That is a complete nightmare. I am really sorry you went through it but you know, it happens every day. I hope everything turns out OK soon and you can get on with life! Good luck!;)

Jimbob51 · Feb 20, 2006, 07:10 AM

One other question about cement splatter -- Is there some kind of spray-on liquid that will help dissolve cement splatter on the side of our house? More specifically, on Hardi-Plank siding? The contractor showed up the other day with a painter to inform me that they would be back to water-blast the cement from the side of the house, and THEN repaint the house! I'm NOT so sure I want this for fear that it'll chew up the siding too badly, and then I'll have to deal with the paint job earlier than with the rest of the siding. Any ideas?

magprob · Feb 20, 2006, 08:57 AM

Muratic acid, which you can get at home chepo, will dissolve it, if it does not affect your siding's appearance in any way. Do a small test to see. Ammonia will nuetralize it. You could use a pressure washer to clean it if you used very low pressure.

Jimbob51 · Feb 21, 2006, 01:40 PM

The saga continues: Yesterday I left word by way of a note with his business card tacked to our gate (had to go to a dr's appointment, after waiting for him to show all day), in no uncertain terms -- that "YOU'RE FIRED!" No, seriously, I worded it, "There's no more work here for you or your crew! We are totally unsatisfied with your work, and will hire someone else to straighten out your mess!" and signed it.

I go to my dr's appointment and call my wife afterward; she's pulling up to our street, and there's the contractor and the painter loading back up the pressure washer in the back of the pickup. My wife doesn't feel comfortable with pulling up in the driveway with them there, so she pulls around the block. They leave, she returns, and I come home to find that they've not ONLY waterblasted the back of the house chewing into the siding in spots -- but NOT touching the cement splatter on the house! I padlock the gate to keep this idiot out of the backyard and further attempting to correct his mess. (He quoted me $1900 for the completed job, and had only gotten $900 from us so far. I didn't want to pay him that to begin with, but hey, he came recommended by friends and was a 'nice guy'; you know, you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt.)

I bought a jug of Muriatic Acid yesterday, which I tried today to scrub off the cement splatter to no avail; it didn't work. So I guess the house will have to be repainted. I've called another concrete, patio, paving stone guy, who will let us know tomorrow what'll it take to finish the job to our satisfaction. Hopefully. And we won't mind paying another $900 to get the job done right and like we want it.