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excon · Mar 17, 2012, 06:59 PM

Hello:

Let's say my wife was brain dead and scheduled to be removed from life support tomorrow. I didn't want to wait and pulled the plug today. Am I guilty of murder? If I am, why wouldn't the doctor be guilty, who's going to pull the plug tomorrow?

excon

cdad · Mar 17, 2012, 07:05 PM

There is a difference in following rules and not. You not being in the medical profession then you would be working outside the rules. It's the same rules like with abortion. If the boyfriend does it then its murder if a doctor does it then its approved by the state.

excon · Mar 17, 2012, 07:10 PM

Hello dad:

I'm not buying that...

excon

Fr_Chuck · Mar 17, 2012, 07:10 PM

Ex, just being married to you, does not make her brain dead, a saint maybe,

But it will vary by state, each state has specific laws on "end of life"

DrBill100 · Mar 17, 2012, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello dad:

I'm not buying that...

excon

... and you are shopping for?

If you are shopping for a legal response then I am eminently unqualified.

As relates to bio-medical ethics your question is compelling.

I'm on the wrong board to offer an expert response. Just being nosy and intrusive.

cdad · Mar 17, 2012, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello dad:

I'm not buying that...

excon

Then lets turn the question around. A woman decides she wants an abortion. Which in the state she lives in is legal and she must wait 72 hours for the procedure. So on day 1 she sets it up and has the appointment for 72 hours later. On her way to her friends house the next day she is involved in an accident. It is someone else's fault. And because of it the baby inside dies. Is that murder or manslaughter as determined by the laws or is it no problem because she wanted an abortion anyway?

J_9 · Mar 17, 2012, 07:38 PM

You all are talking hypotheticals. There is a lot more that goes into it besides just pulling a plug.

AK lawyer · Mar 18, 2012, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Let's say my wife was brain dead and scheduled to be removed from life support tomorrow. I didn't want to wait and pulled the plug today. Am I guilty of murder? If I am, why wouldn't the doctor be guilty, who's gonna pull the plug tomorrow?

excon

Is this homework? We don't do homework!

Seriously, the doctor wouldn't be guilty because, we assume, there is a specific law or judicial decree in place which would constitute justification for the homicide.

Originally Posted by califdadof3

Then lets turn the question around. A woman decides she wants an abortion. Which in the state she lives in is legal and she must wait 72 hours for the procedure. So on day 1 she sets it up and has the appointment for 72 hours later. On her way to her friends house the next day she is involved in an accident. It is someone elses fault. And because of it the baby inside dies. Is that murder or manslaughter as determined by the laws or is it no problem because she wanted an abortion anyway?

Your hypothetical says it's an accident. Thus, it is not murder, which of course requires malice aforethought. But yes, it may be manslaughter.

Let's do another hypothetical: Excon has been convicted of murder for pulling his late wife's plug. As he is walking down that last mile to the gas chamber, Califdadof3 (who happens to be doing time in the same prison for negligent homicide of an unborn child in an automobile accident) kills him (on purpose). Would Califdadof3 be guilty of murder? Certainly.

excon · Mar 18, 2012, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by DrBill100

I'm on the wrong board to offer an expert response. Just being nosy and intrusive.

Hello Doc:

No, you're not. We listen to EVERYBODY over here.

excon

J_9 · Mar 18, 2012, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Let's say my wife was brain dead and scheduled to be removed from life support tomorrow. I didn't want to wait and pulled the plug today. Am I guilty of murder? If I am, why wouldn't the doctor be guilty, who's gonna pull the plug tomorrow?

excon

You are guilty of murder because you aren't the medical personnel who are given the authority to pull the plug on the medical device.

Why wouldn't the doctor be guilty? Because presumably you have given your written consent to have the plug pulled.

Who will pull the plug? Actually a plug isn't pulled, but rather the machine is turned off. Only the doctor can turn that machine off.

J_9 · Mar 18, 2012, 06:12 AM

Again, it depends on what form of life support your wife is on. There are more than one kind.

excon · Mar 18, 2012, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by J_9

Again, it depends on what form of life support your wife is on. There are more than one kind.

Hello J:

Hey Nursey. Quit trying to ruin my question with FACTS.

excon

J_9 · Mar 18, 2012, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello J:

Hey Nursey. Quit trying to ruin my question with FACTS.

excon

Well... you still love me doncha? What's wrong with facts?

excon · Mar 18, 2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by J_9

What's wrong with facts?

Hello Nursey:

Of course I do, but this is NOT a fact based question.. I didn't actually pull the plug.. She left me before I could..

excon

J_9 · Mar 18, 2012, 06:58 AM

But if you pulled the plug today, as in your original question, how could she have left you before you pulled the plug?

Were you married to David Copperfield perchance?

excon · Mar 18, 2012, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by J_9

But if you pulled the plug today, as in your original question, how could she have left you before you pulled the plug?

Hello again, Nursey:

Like I said - NOT a factual inquiry. What DOES interest me, though, and YOU are the PERFECT one to tell me, is there a law that says a doctor can pull the plug and NOT be exposed to legal ramifications.

excon

JudyKayTee · Mar 18, 2012, 07:10 AM

Wow - "pull the plug"? Why doesn't everyone who has ever had to sign the order taking a loved one off life support raise his/her hand, and we can all vote on whether the wording in this thread is callous.

You asked, Excon - how would you "pull the plug"? Remove the trach with your bare hands? Rip out the feeding tube? Rip out the IV's? Pull out the catheter?

Or would you administer the fatal drip?

I don't object to the question. I don't know if it's a good or bad question. Legally that person is alive until that person is pronounced dead so, yes, "pulling the plug" would be murder, at least in my eyes.

I've heard every religious argument about removing someone who is brain dead from life support over the last four years so, yes, I have an opinion on when PHYSICAL death occurs. MENTAL death, well, that's for a Doctor (or Doctors) to determine.

"Pull the plug"? Certainly there are better, less flippant ways to address this question.

And, yes, I'm raising my hand as a person who had to make this agonizing decision and, yes, after all this time the phrase "pull the plug" still sickens me.

J_9 · Mar 18, 2012, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by excon

is there a law that says a doctor can pull the plug and NOT be exposed to legal ramifications.

excon

If the next of kin signs the consent for removal of life support the doctor is not exposed to legal ramifications.

I dealt with this issue with my father before he passed. We did indeed choose to "pull the plug" so to speak.

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Legally that person is alive until that person is pronounced dead so, yes,

In the original question Judy, the person has been pronounced brain dead. This means that there is zero chance for recovery.

excon · Mar 18, 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

"Pull the plug"? Certainly there are better, less flippant ways to address this question.

Hello Judy:

I spose there is, but I was just being my usual flippant self. I DIDN'T mean to offend.

excon

Stringer · Mar 18, 2012, 07:21 PM

A few years ago we were asked to consent to 'turning off the machine' and letting Mom pass. Being the oldest I was asked by the doctor and the nurses to lead in the decision, they ask me three times. She was dying but not her mind. I was seriously considering saying yes but I wanted to talk with her first although she could not respond verbally.

She opened her eyes and looked at my sister and me. I said 'Mom if know that we love you very much please blink your eyes twice... she did.

That changed my mind immediately and no one was going to make me do anything.

Two hours later she passed.