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    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Nov 12, 2008, 12:27 PM
    Protect granddaughter

    Granddaughter was placed in our foster care after death of our daughter because father sexually molested girl. Father now hired a advocate ad litem who uses PAS as strategy to get custody of girl(5). Know any counter strategies?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #2

    Nov 12, 2008, 12:41 PM

    First its not a good idea to piggyback your question on someone else's. This can lead to confusion. You should start a new thread. So I've moved your question to its own thread.

    Not sure what PAS is. But if it was proven that the father molested the daughter, I don't see any strategy by which he can regain custody.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Nov 12, 2008, 12:43 PM
    visitation rights
    Girl 5, refuses to visit with father who sexually abused her. visits are supervised, but she won't go. How can I stop these visits without going to jail for non-compliance of high court order?
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    macksmom Posts: 1,787, Reputation: 152
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    #4

    Nov 12, 2008, 12:50 PM

    You need to file in court to re-address the visitation order and see about modifying it.

    Is there proof of sexual abuse... ie. A police report etc?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #5

    Nov 12, 2008, 12:56 PM

    I've merged your threads together. No one can force a child to visit. You need to get a psych eval of the child and bring that to court and petition to end visitation.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Nov 13, 2008, 12:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    I've merged your threads together. No one can force a child to visit. You need to get a psych eval of the child and bring that to court and petition to end visitation.
    Thank U. still new at this. Problem, father hired avocate ad litem, who came to our house and tried to force granddaughter(5) I had to use physical force to free her. This is definitely not in best interest of child. Her report for high court(court date;20 nov) says we are using Parental alienation(PAS) to influence child. This is not true! Girl won't go. This is pure hell.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Nov 13, 2008, 12:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by macksmom View Post
    You need to file in court to re-address the visitation order and see about modifying it.

    Is there proof of sexual abuse...ie. a police report etc?
    Thanks. There is proof, reports of 5 indipendant counsellours. The case was reported when my daughter was still alive, but girl was too young to go to court. Police docket is now open again. The problem is the curator. She hired another councellour, who also says we are using parental allienation PAS, to influence child(R. Gardener's "wonderful way to get fathers accused of molestation, a counter strategy against mother) according to his people, she must be removed immediately from our foster care, and be placed with his parents, where most of abuse took place
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Nov 13, 2008, 06:20 AM
    Is it legal?
    Is it legal for the father, who sexually abused daughter, and was placed in foster care by children's court, to hire a advocate ad litem to try to get custody of child? He appealed to high court to do this. Court case 20 nov 2008.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,293, Reputation: 5645
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    #9

    Nov 13, 2008, 06:27 AM
    If the father sexually abused the child, and was tried and convicted, chances are quite slim that he will get custody of said daughter.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #10

    Nov 13, 2008, 06:42 AM

    Ok, Anyone can hire an "expert" that will do what they want. You have your own expert testimony that agrees that she was molested. Any judge is going to err on the side of caution here.

    Tell the judge that you will be happy to take your granddaughter to any expert he wants to assign to the case.

    If this advocate shows up again, tell him/her that you will not let them in without your attorney present. Tell them they can wait until your attorney gets there or schedule a time when they will be there.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Nov 13, 2008, 06:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    Ok, Anyone can hire an "expert" that will do what they want. You have your own expert testimony that agrees that she was molested. Any judge is going to err on the side of caution here.

    Tell the judge that you will be happy to take your granddaughter to any expert he wants to assign to the case.

    If this advocate shows up again, tell him/her that you will not let them in without your attorney present. Tell them they can wait until your attorney gets there or schedule a time when they will be there.
    Thanks. I will do just that. Will let you know what outcome of court case was after 20 nov.I really appreciate your input. Please hold thumbs..
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,304, Reputation: 7692
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    #12

    Nov 13, 2008, 07:01 AM

    Well this is a problem, if there is a court order for visits and you do not produce the child, you can be put in jail for contempt.

    So you will have to go back to court to get visits done away with if possible. By showing it harmful to the child because of the abuse.

    But if a person phsycially was taking the child, you needed to call the police on them.

    Start documenting everything with police reports
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,304, Reputation: 7692
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    #13

    Nov 13, 2008, 07:05 AM

    It is very legal for him to hire any and all legal help he wants, and the more money he has the more he can do.

    Most likely he can force supervised visits but full custody is doubtful. But it is legal for him to try.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Nov 13, 2008, 07:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    well this is a problem, if there is a court order for visits and you do not produce the child, you can be put in jail for contempt.

    So you will have to go back to court to get visits done away with if possible. By showing it harmful to the child because of the abuse.

    But if a person phsycially was taking the child, you needed to call the police on them.

    Start documenting everything with police reports
    Did report it to cps, will now have to wait for court appearance 20 nov, where he petitioned to have children's court order revoked, and applied for custody with his parents(where most of the abuse took place) hope the judge will see what father is trying to do. Thanks.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #15

    Nov 13, 2008, 07:19 AM

    I've also merged in your "Is It Legal" thread. But yes it is legal for the father to hire an advocate. But, as we have all said, if there is sufficient evidence of molestation, there isn't a chance he's going to get anything more than supervised visitation.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Nov 13, 2008, 07:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    it is very legal for him to hire any and all legal help he wants, and the more money he has the more he can do.

    Most likely he can force supervised visits but full custody is doubtful. But it is legal for him to try.
    Supervised visits were forced upon child, she was traumatised after each visit. He wants custody for his parents, and wants to live with them, with child. Most of the sexual abuse took place at their home during visits with them. I really believe that this is a travestry of justice if court allows this. Thanks.
    dis ek's Avatar
    dis ek Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Nov 13, 2008, 10:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    If the father sexually abused the child, and was tried and convicted, chances are quite slim that he will get custody of said daughter.
    the child was too young to testify, the children's court found her in need of care, and placed her in our foster care. The police docket was opened again last week, but this case currently is a cival procedure, he and curator is trying to use Parental alienation syndrome to "proof" that we are unfit to look after child, and they are trying to get high court to place child in his parents care.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #18

    Nov 13, 2008, 12:01 PM

    They can try anything they want. Proviing it is another matter. The proof would have to be pretty overwhelming to reverse the Childrten's court ruling.
    dis ek's Avatar
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    #19

    Nov 13, 2008, 11:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    They can try anything they want. Proviing it is another matter. The proof would have to be pretty overwhelming to reverse the Childrten's court ruling.
    Thank you Scott! Your positivity might just help me get through the next week.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #20

    Nov 14, 2008, 06:59 AM

    Keep us posted.

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