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froggy7 · Jan 13, 2007, 06:15 PM

Hello!

I'm in Austin, Texas. Moved into an apartment 6 weeks ago. Went through the lease with the agent, initialed and signed everything. I asked for a copy of the lease, and was told that the manager needs to sign it, and I should get it a copy in a few days. Fast forward... it's 6 weeks later, and the lease is still not signed on their side, even though I have asked for a copy several times. I am contemplating moving out early (it was a short-term lease to tide me over while I settled into the city), but would pay some stiff penalties under the written lease if I do so. (They have "discounted" the rent from the market rate, and I would have to pay the difference if I break the lease, plus a re-renting penalty, plus they are laying claim to half my pet deposit and requiring a 60-day notice in the written lease.) If I give notice before they sign the lease, can I claim that the written lease isn't valid and that, therefore, I have a month-to-month lease with them, and get out of it without the penalties?

My thinking is that they haven't signed the lease, therefore it must be a month-to-month, which only requires a 30-day notice (which I am willing to give), and therefore I am not breaking a lease, no penalty applies, they can't ask for the difference between what I've paid and the market rent since they set the rent at that rate and have accepted it, and the pet deposit would become just a plain security deposit and therefore they would have to refund everything except for what they need for damages.

Normally I wouldn't do something like this, but I have given them multiple chances to sign the lease, and if I can get out of having to carry payments on two spots, I'd like to.

Fr_Chuck · Jan 13, 2007, 06:48 PM

I am going to say no, since they offered a lease (contract) you accepted and paid money. That bound the actual contract. The fact that the manger did not sign may not void the lease at all. You can claim it, but I doubt it holds up, since they allowed you to move in and both you and the other party acted upon the lease.

So my opinoin, if you move out, they will claim you don't have the right and charge you the fees, and then sue you if you don't pay, so I guess the thing is, you really will not for sure, until you do it and go to court and the judge rules on his opinon of when the contract become binding or if there was a contract.

If you want to try, I would send them a certified letter stating you are withdrawing your request for the lease since they have failed to sign and agree to the lease. ( that would be refusal of their offer to lease, on the idea they have not accepted that offer by signing) In it state that because of their failure you are now on a month to month basis.

Personally I don't think it would hold up in court, but that is just my opinion

excon · Jan 13, 2007, 07:05 PM

Hello froggy:

Nahh. You don't know if they signed it or not. All you know is you don't have a copy. But they have a copy with your signature. That's all they need to sue you.

excon

froggy7 · Jan 13, 2007, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello froggy:

Nahh. You don't know if they signed it or not. All you know is you don't have a copy. But they have a copy with your signature. That's all they need to sue you.

excon

Well, I would, of course, try to get a peek at the lease before handing in my notice, to make sure it's not signed. And have something handy with a date on it so that I could take a picture if the lease isn't signed, so that they couldn't back-date it and take it to court.

The reason I am contemplating this is because I can't do some of the things that are allowed in the lease (like get satellite TV set-up), since the techs want documented proof from the landlord that I can have it. Which was the last time that I asked for the lease, earlier this week. I told them I had the tech coming out to set it up, and that I needed the copy. They said it was finally "in the sign-off bin on the manager's desk, and they'd make sure I had the copy before the workers were out here, so there won't be any problems". And I still don't have a copy. So I'm thinking if I can't enjoy all the rights that are guaranteed me in the lease because they haven't signed it, they shouldn't get to reap all the benefits of it either.

Realistically, it's all going to come down to whether it's cheaper to just pay off the last few months' rent (even if I'm not living here), or break the lease and pay the penalties. If it's a month-to-month, it shifts the cost/benefit calculation, because then I'm not "breaking" the lease.

justrich2000 · Mar 5, 2007, 01:47 PM

If there are 4 parties listed on a lease as landlord, and only one signs the lease, are the other parties who did not sign, a legitimate party to the lease?

Lowtax4eva · Mar 5, 2007, 01:50 PM

If you left before the end of the lease they could sign their copy at their leisure and use it to come after you.

It doesn't matter if you don't have a signed copy, they have your signature and can add theirs any time it suits them. They probably have signed it but are too lazy to make a copy, make a date and time to give it to you and actually show up.

froggy7 · Mar 5, 2007, 08:56 PM

As a general update: they sent me a nice notice reminding me that the lease was expiring, and outlining my options for renewal or giving notice. Since the date that they said that the lease expired was a month earlier than the date on the lease, and I have some remodeling that I am doing, I was perfectly happy to submit my notice for the new end date, and got a nice form letter stating that they have the notice, etc.

Given that they apparently don't even know what date is on the lease that they have, I'm pretty sure that they haven't signed it yet. However, I'm happy with the current situation, and I don't think that they can now go back and hold me to the original lease terms, since all the changes have been instigated by their side, and are in writing.

landlord advocate · Mar 6, 2007, 05:12 PM

It doesn't sound like the lefthand knows what the righthand is doing. Keep all your paperwork handy. The person that sent the letters and changed the dates may not be the same person that eventually reviews the lease you signed.

You would have a case if it every came into question, just as long as you have the notes sent by the leasing office. The lease is still the legal document, not the notes from office personnel.

froggy7 · Mar 6, 2007, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by landlord advocate

It doesn't sound like the lefthand knows what the righthand is doing. Keep all your paperwork handy. The person that sent the letters and changed the dates may not be the same person that eventually reviews the lease you signed.

You would have a case if it every came into question, just as long as you have the notes sent by the leasing office. The lease is still the legal document, not the notes from office personnel.

Well, the lease says that the office is required to notify the tenant 90 days before the lease is up, and the tenant is required to give 60 days notice. Since the letter I got seemed to be the official "90-day reminder", given the date of the letter and the date that they said the lease was up, I consider it pretty official documentation. And I included it with the notice I gave, kept copies of everything, and got a nice "we have gotten your notice, here's what the last month's rent is going to be" form letter in response. So I think that they would have a pretty hard time legally if they want to hold me to the terms of the lease instead. Especially since, as I understand it, in a contract dispute the law tends to hold the business to higher standard than the non-business member. They have the contract, they have the expertise on their side, so a judge is most likely going to say that they should have known what they were doing. But yes, I am keeping copies of everything, except the lease which I still haven't gotten a copy of yet!