[Wondergirl]

Or hysterical!

[tomder55]

Originally Posted by tomder55
So the shooter walks unobstructed into an unlocked door of the school .



...that was propped open (to catch a breeze?)

Easily solved by having a security system that identifies when a door is opened unauthorized. This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

It gives me no pleasure in suggesting that schools should be hardened . But I'd rather that than defenseless kids becoming prey to demented people bent on murder . Hardening schools ,armed school employees is a deterrent .

The marauders look for vulnerable targets . That is why they attack schools in so called "gun free zones " rather than police stations .Mass shooters don't pick schools because they want to engage in a fair fight .They pick schools because they are the easiest targets . When a person bent on murder sees a sign that says the school is a gun free zone it is an open invitation to the person .

Maybe if more incidents like this were sensational headlines for days people would understand the effectiveness of having deterrence .

'Heroic' resource officer hailed for stopping armed teen at high school, saving lives - ABC News (go.com)



Great Mills High School Shooting: Injuries Reported In Maryland Shooting : The Two-Way : NPR

Doors in schools should only be opened from the inside and used mostly for emergency evacuation .Access to the school should only be through an armed guarded entrance. It is that simple . Spare me the talk about the rare times that system may be breached .

[tomder55]

Let's simplify it . Fatherlessness is by far the biggest contributor to social ills in America. The rise in fatherlessness is an unintended or intended natural outcome of progressive social policies .

Minimal or no father involvement, whether due to divorce, death, or imprisonment, is common to Adam Lanza, Elliott Rodgers, Dylan Roof and Stephen Paddock.
In the case of 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, he was adopted at birth. His adoptive dad died when Nikolas was much younger, and doubtless the challenges of this fatherlessness was compounded by the death of his adoptive mom three and a half months ago.
The rate of mass shootings has tripled since 2011. We blame guns, violence in the media, violence in video games, and poor family values. Each is a plausible player. But our daughters live in the same homes, with the same access to the same guns, video games, and media, and are raised with the same family values. Our daughters are not killing. Our sons are.
But boys with significant father involvement are not doing these shootings. Without dads as role models, boys’ testosterone is not well channeled. The boy experiences a sense of purposelessness, a lack of boundary enforcement, rudderlessness, and often withdraws into video games and video porn. At worst, when boys’ testosterone is not well-channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most destructive forces. When boys’ testosterone is well channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most constructive forces. ('The Boy Crisis Why Our Boys Are Struggling and What We Can Do About It ' by Warren Farrell and John Gray)

Farrell and Gray identify 4 crises that boys face: education, physical health,economic health, mental health .All 4 problems can be traced to a lack of a father in their lives .
Father Absence Statistics (fatherhood.org)

It is a problem for girls too . 85% of those incarcerated grew up in fatherless homes . But it seems to have a greater impact on boys . Before age 9, boys and girls commit suicide equally," By age 10 to 14, it is 2x the amount for boys. Between 15 and 19, it is 4x times the amount, and by ages 18 to 24, it is6x the amount according to Ferrell.

To make it even worse ,most teachers are females so the boys are not getting the male role model outside of school .For some they find the male role model in gangs they join. For some it is in a fantasy world of violent video games .

[jlisenbe]

It is a problem for girls too . 85% of those incarcerated grew up in fatherless homes . But it seems to have a greater impact on boys . Before age 9, boys and girls commit suicide equally," By age 10 to 14, it is 2x the amount for boys. Between 15 and 19, it is 4x times the amount, and by ages 18 to 24, it is6x the amount according to Ferrell.

To make it even worse ,most teachers are females so the boys are not getting the male role model outside of school .For some they find the male role model in gangs they join. For some it is in a fantasy world of violent video games .

Pretty compelling evidence for those willing to be unbiased in their evaluation of it.

[Wondergirl]

Terrific post, tomder! And I totally agree about gangs and that boys/young men join them, looking for father figures to emulate.

[jlisenbe]

How about this?

Easily solved by having a security system that identifies when a door is opened unauthorized. This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

It gives me no pleasure in suggesting that schools should be hardened . But I'd rather that than defenseless kids becoming prey to demented people bent on murder . Hardening schools ,armed school employees is a deterrent .

[Wondergirl]

Ted Cruz firmly maintains that every grade school should have only one entrance/exit door. Like me, do you see a problem with that?

How many mass murders have been committed by females? (Yes, I know what you're going to say, JL.)

[jlisenbe]

But how about the question I just asked about Tom's comments on school security? Are you on board for that? I asked because several days ago you described it as, "impossible".

I don't think one entry/exit door is practicable, but a lot can be done in that regard. It would be especially difficult in case of a fire, and also with older buildings. With new construction it could be possible.

You would first have to define what a "female" is. Ask Judge Jackson for help with that.

[Wondergirl]

But how about the question I just asked about Tom's comments on school security? Are you on board for that? I asked because several days ago you described it as, "impossible".

Our doors to the outside had alarms on them that would blare when the doors were opened and that could be turned off/deactivated by personnel who knew the code.

I don't think one entry/exit door is practicable, but a lot can be done in that regard. It would be especially difficult in case of a fire, and also with older buildings. With new construction it could be possible.

Good luck getting 250 students out of a burning two-story school that has only one door to the outside..

You would first have to define what a "female" is. Ask Judge Jackson for help with that.

As I said in Post #167...

[jlisenbe]

Remind me.

I just did. But to be clear, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...19#post3881019

As I said in Post #167...

Conservatives tend to know the definition. It's liberals who struggle with it.

[Wondergirl]

I just did. But to be clear, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...19#post3881019

Conservatives tend to know the definition. It's liberals who struggle with it.

I was still working on my post that you too quickly responded to. Please go back and read what I had added.

[jlisenbe]

Nah. You said it was impossible to make them as secure as possible. Live with it.

Tom's comment is entirely appropriate.

This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

[Wondergirl]

Nah. You said it was impossible to make them as secure as possible. Live with it.

A student comes to school with a loaded handgun. School is no longer secure.

[jlisenbe]

For the third time.

Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

I put it this way. "Make our schools as secure as possible." I lock my house at night, but a determined crook could get in. It would still be stupid for me to not lock my doors. Why? "Perfect is an illusion."

[tomder55]

Tell me the mass shooting incident where students are subject to routine or even random metal detector screening. Yes it is not perfect . NYC has thousands of students randomly going through detectors . Weapons have been found , The utopia crowd would argue that the stats show that only 1 in some 23,000 scans produces a weapon. In other words ,it works because of the deterrence value.

4.5 billion people travel by air world wide annually .After 9-11 ,enhanced screening was deployed . It was a pain in the a$$ causing long screening lines . Now going through the same screening at the airport causes small delays at best .Some people have either accidently or intentionally attempted to bring weapons on planes . For all we know some have made it on planes . But ;because of the security deployed not one plane has been brought down by a terrorist hijacking since. Passengers almost universally accept the inconvenience . I hope we are not saying the lives of children at school are less valuable than airline passengers .

[Wondergirl]

Two letters to the editor in today's Tribune --

1. Sources of children’s distress

"Dr. Sabreen Akhter writes a moving account in the May 30 paper about the work she does in her emergency room trying to help distressed kids (“I see distressed kids come into my ER. I wonder about their paths — and my son’s.”). At the end of the op-ed, she offers some reasons for this apparent epidemic of distress, such as guns, racism and mental health disinvestment. While not discounting these, I would offer a few others: the many evils of social media, the crisis in the American family (far too many one-parent households), the decline of religion, the disappearance of what are often called societal guardrails (norms, rules of behavior), and a dramatic loss of faith in institutions and leaders.

To put it another way, one has a sense that society is, in too many ways, coming apart. This affects all of us, of course, but especially kids."

2. One solution to gun problem

"I guess I’m what you’d call a gun guy. I have raised all my children around guns and with more morals than the government. I can’t stop the senseless murders, and I don’t believe war is a solution to any problem. I don’t have an answer for that, but what I do have is a good idea that my gun friends and I have all talked about, so here it is. My solution to part of the gun problem is simple. All ammunition should be sold only through the local police department, and proper identification and a hand scan would be needed to purchase. The police would not add fees or taxes to the manufacturer’s asking price. No municipalities could add a dollar to the price. Ammunition could not be taxed.

Only a criminal would worry about a hand scan. If somebody gives you that as a reason, look twice.

I would also laser-engrave a number on each casing, so you can tell where they came from.

Honest hunters and shooters don’t worry about stuff like that."

[jlisenbe]

To put it another way, one has a sense that society is, in too many ways, coming apart. This affects all of us, of course, but especially kids."

Sadly true. One need look no further than abortion. "Kid's an inconvenience, so kill it and let's move on." Thus we have over 900,000 kids a year whose lives are snuffed out.

The ammo idea is not good. Reloads would be an easy way around that. Besides, adding yet another layer of likely inefficient and certainly costly bureaucracy is not the answer. It would be just the first step in the Swiss "solution".

[Wondergirl]

Thanks, JL. I was hoping you would comment.

[jlisenbe]

Since the other liberal dems have fled the scene, then your options for replies are pretty limited.

[Wondergirl]

Since the other liberal dems have fled the scene, then your options for replies are pretty limited.

I'm a Republican. And I especially wanted to read your opinion about the ammo ideas. I hope Tom weighs in too.